working overseas
working overseas
(OP)
has anyone done this? how much of a premium do you normally see for pay between middle east jobs and the equivalent us job?
thanks.
thanks.
Thanks,
Scott
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RE: working overseas
2. Point 1 was a generic comment. However, taxes pay a major role and there is practically NO tax in the ME countries (at least most of them for sure).
HVAC68
RE: working overseas
RE: working overseas
RE: working overseas
Does that mean US citizens are subject to double taxation.
My lady is a US citizen, but I am sure she only pays tax in Aus.
Regards
Pat
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RE: working overseas
TTFN
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RE: working overseas
RE: working overseas
thanks. scott.
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
You can exclude foreign earned income, up to US$87600 for the 2008 tax year. You can also take a foreign tax credit for taxes paid on other income like interest & dividends. I've lived in Australia for a long time, and haven't had to pay tax in the US in most years, but as a US citizen, I am still required to file a US tax return. A pain, and it gets complicated sometimes.
RE: working overseas
- Steve
RE: working overseas
As to the tax thing, talk to an accountant. When I emigrated to the US from the UK we had trouble working it out, we asked our CPA and even he took a while to work it out and then there were a couple of options of how we could do it. Some countries have agreements with the US about reciprocal taxation or something like that, however I assume that means some don't, not sure where the Gulf states lie.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: working overseas
- Steve
RE: working overseas
I worked in the USA (non egineering related, btw) for 4 months, with a visa, and some months after I returned home I have this unexpected check in my mail from the USA goverment or something giving me back their taxes.
You know what that mean to a broke 21y old man.
I cannot even imagine a tax agency doing such bizarre thing as "giving back" anything, much less money. Did I caught a government employee on a happy hour or you guys live in wonderland?
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
The Middle East is not the only place in the world to work. But remember the additional money represents the hardship of being away from family and friends, in hospitable terrain, lack of other things to do but work, pressure of the job etc etc.
If you think the tax you pay is too much and does not leave you enough net pay, work harder and get more money and be left with more. I wished I paid a $1billion a year in tax for I would be left with plenty.
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: working overseas
RE: working overseas
Scott. I have not worked in the Middle East, but yes overseas. In the past I have got about 0% to 40% to 50% but it really depends on the market, place, length of assignment and conditions.
As you probably know, there are also other considerations, taxes (I ask for the company to pay local tax if any), living arrangements (decent & paid for), holidays, expenses, flights, working hours (if you have to work 10hX6d, suddenly the 40% premium results on a hourly rate cut!), health and life insurance, responsibilities... The usual.
I find that other conditions, rather than pay, will condition me saying yes or no to an assignment. I have run away from places that paid "tons" and worked happily for my normal rate in others.
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
Pay structures are highly dependent on various factors and it's very hard to give a number or % premium that one would get as compared to the US or any other country.
Good luck
HVAC68
RE: working overseas
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: working overseas
HVAC68
RE: working overseas
GE
halliburton
jacobs / sverdrup
Fluor
Bechtel
Foster wheeler
CH2MHill
Shell
Conoco Phillips
BP
Chevron
Anadarko
Occidental
Schlumberger
Baker Hughes......
you'll quickly see which overseas countries are the most popular right now. europe / china / and australia suprised me the most....
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
What's the best paid.
Using Qatar as an example;
Working for a USA/UK company that operates in Qatar, or a non-foreign Qatar company?
RE: working overseas
They have a forum on taxes, and a general BB where I have seen tax questionsnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
RE: working overseas
What is your skill set?
I have worked overseas, specifically the Middle East and you have to realise that much of the work up to (and often beyond) the level of junior management is carried out either by locals or Asians (mainly from India, Pakistan and the Philipines)who for the most part provide an excellent quality of work for a benefits package that is significantly lower than that expected from a western expat. Its a generalisation but, most of the western expat jobs are in supervisory positions where you are looking after the interests of a western company and making sure that company policy is adhered to in a foreign climate.
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
+ round trip tickets to home base once per year for family
+ housing is furnished
+ accompanying children provided with school fees
+ car is furnished, or fig allowance of +\-$500/mo paid
+ transportation arrangements for wife if no women driving allowed
+ retirement contribution is paid (about 10%/yr)
+ medical insurance for the family is paid (no deductable)
Taxes?
If you work for a division of a US company, there is a W2 that goes with that, so expect to pay full taxes there. If you don't get a W2, maybe you'll have some "flexibility".
You are allowed to earn up to 90k +/- of foreign paid income w/o paying tax on that, but tax is figured on [b]total income[b].
Total Income is figured as salary + benefits,
which includes housing benefits (in some cases you can apply an exclusion or a % of value thereof),
which includes medical insurance,
which includes car allowance,
which includes retirement contribution,
which includes air tickets,
which includes school fee benefits.
and anything else of value you might get your hands on during the year.
The 90k is deducted from total income and you pay tax on any remainder. To qualify, you must be outside the US for 330 days in any year you claim the exclusion. The time of overflights of the US and any of its territories is counted as time in the US.
From my perspective, I wouldn't take 8,000 to do that, but I've had enough of the ME, thank you very much. I don't even like working on ME projects even if they are being engineered in a London, or Paris.
Base pay can vary from one ME country to another, kind-of according to how well they think they've got it in relation to their neighbors. (? ya I know, its kind of an excuse to offer less because they're not Saudi Arabia.)
A general rate for short term engineering contracts in "foreign" oil and gas related projects has been around 500 £ (let's say $750/day) for a heavy weight experienced expert kind-of guy. Includes housing and in some cases food and whatever your rotation tickets might be. No family status. Foreign can be London in some circumstances (but rate is w/o housing, transport, or food), any Oilstan country, African bases, etc. Been that way for the last couple of years or so. If you can convince a client that you are very very good, with the exact experience they want and you're damn good in negotiations , you might be able to squeeze out a little bit more.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
In Islamic countries there are issues concerning religious observence, alcohol consumption, associating with the opposite sex, dress code, use of vehicles and being in traffic accidents, bribery, kidnapping, illness/injury, crime etc.
Do you homework and go with eyes wide open.
If you come to Australia you will probably be paid less than you would get in the USA but you dont have to worry about all the above except possibly drinking too much alcohol, dressing badly and fraternising with the opposite sex. These are all encouraged.
RE: working overseas
Speaking of traffic accidents, "If you weren't here, then this accident could not have happened, so its your fault.", has been known (or at least widely reported) to have been the verdict in many cases involving expats.
Guilty until proven innocent.
Other things can get to you too, like standing behind a very large crowd all trying to get the last seats on the flight out, and you don't speak the language. BTW its 57.2 C (135 F) ... in the shade and the airport window unit air conditioners were stolen 18 months ago, or arn't working for whatever reason.
Missing the "connection next day" advisory on your airline ticket.
8 hour fligth to a 10 hour truck ride on a bumpy road.
Having your luggage opened and searched in the street, then just because they found a map in there, a 2 hour trip to a 4 hour interview with the police captain of the nearest town.
Having to pay your last 100 to the emigration inspector so you don't have to go downtown and wait till next Tuesday to show the quy that can read that your papers really are in order.
Getting deported because the work permit your company was applying for wasn't accompanied with the customary "push".
Getting hit by a guy with no insurance. That's fun.
Topping off the "heating oil" fund for the apartment complex you're living in each month.
Having to pay "export tax" on a computer that you brought into the country. Having to pay "import tax" on a computer you're bringing into the country.
Everybody always asking how much your watch cost you.
Waiting for the helicopter to pick you up after 24 hours out on site, now 4 hrs late and ... the last guy there had drank all the water before he left.
Getting shot at. That's fun.
Strike, lockdown and ... no deliveries to the camp for 3 weeks.
Getting 10% paid on your invoice.
Getting stiffed for 25k.
Guerillas in police uniforms at the roadblock up ahead. ...
200 km of bad road and finding the bridge on fire... so that's another 6 hrs going around that. I ran across the bridge and got a taxi on the other side.
In Texas we had pretty big mosquitos, but there are bigger ones out there .. with bioweapons.
Going 2 hours to the town everybody said had a bus to the big city only to find out that there isn't even a bus stop there.
Gunfight at the hotel patio.
No local holidays and being the only one on the road at 6:30 am. (But that has its good side too).
700 km of right of way to run and no helicopter.
Power cuts every morning and at just before lunch, and your office is on the 11th floor. BTW its also 100 F and 100% humidity with only 2 windows on the floor that open.
London tubes at 6 PM.
London tubes at 1 AM.
Alcohol in some places can get you two weeks in a pretty nasty jail followed by immediate deportation, IF you are lucky! You don't want to know what could happen if you're not lucky.
12/7 day shift
12/7 night shift
Turning the corner on the way to the mess hall and finding you're face to face with a 100 kg baboon.
English airport security.
Turkish security anywhere.
All your CDs melted on the car seat.
$10/lb for lettuce.
$10 for a 4-pack of toilet paper.
$150 for a bottle of JD.
$100 for anything you happen to think you need at the moment.
$10/minute overseas calls.
Losing most all your "good-ole-boy" job network.
Getting divorced for the Xth time.
Noticing your kid is writing his all his numbers (except 6) starting at the bottom.
Earthquakes.
Rain lasting more than 1 day.
Doctors.
Dentists.
Hospitals.
Any needle.
Local suppliers packing guns and looking for the site finance manager. (Can be a good thing.)
The weather in England.
Did I mention happening into and being pushed to the front row of spectators at a public execution? That'll leave an impression.
Fish market in summer. Meat market any time.
Permanent jet lag.
Bomb at the compound.
The good things,
Alcohol in some places can get you anything you want.
Complaining about the price of gas (just raised to 25c/liter)
Keeping your vacation plans secret.
In some places people enjoy driving to work in the rain.
Money in the bank when you get back, but not much else (and that being subject to the divorce procedings).
Other nice people "in the same boat" ... for awhile anyway ... that you will never, never, ever forget.
-----------------------------------------
Stainer, Not always. I didn't take that job I asked you about a few years back because the exchanged rate the Aussie division of that American company was going to pay was less than what you said was your norm and, as I recall, Aussie taxes can be pretty high. (figuring rightly, or wrongly, that we're about = experienced and I don't undercut anybody ... well ... as long as I'm eating regular.)
------------------------------------------
P.S. Don't use the toothpicks.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
You have to put up with a lot sometimes, but in the end, I probably wouldn't have done it any other way. I've always had the philosophy that in the end, "I never wanted to say, Hey I wish I did that." I think I've been true to that so far. Even crashed a couple of ultralight airplanes along the way.
Did I mention getting arrested by the coast quard for scuba diving without a permit.
Let us know what you do.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
You missed some of the real fun things about working in Turkey. Airports are where you really feel special, like at Ankara, where the screening is done (to include full cavity search) behind a wheeled in screen. The engineer I worked with in Cakmakli had to return wrist watches so often that he started taking the 2-day bus ride instead. Largest problem with that was the occassional RPG. It sure is fun to go to your hotel and see RPG netting on the entire facade. If you've flown on THY (They Hate You) airline, you get used to the three bounce landing followed by all the masks dropping. If possible always get a lower floor room as most places don't have fire trucks or code requirements. Worst of all, if you are on an upper floor, you can usually see the dead birds, trash and insects in the drinking water towers. I got used to beer brushing.
Not that Turkey is special; I rather liked working there, the food and the people. It's a little different when you head east. Standard joke was "this is not the edge of nowhere but you can see it from here". Eating locally was risky, even with gamma globulin shots.
Other countries have their fun. I got to see the grand opening of a software headquarters get RPG'd on the day it opened (glad I didn't take that job).
Negotiations are a world different. I've never had as much fun as negotiating contracts, anywhere in the middle east or on the Med. In Greece, it was expected to drink heavily during negoitions, so acquiring a taste for retsina and ouzo was mandatory. Going between Greece and Turkey on the same passport was always a guarantee for trouble, or at least full cavity search on the pavement, and if you go to one middle east country on the same passport as going to an Islam country, trouble was guaranteed. I ended up using my Soggiorno (Italian work pass) in lieu of passport and had less trouble.
I was working in the Middle East when Desert Storm/Desert Shield erupted; that was certainly a contingency I didn't expect.
All that said, it still seemed safer than walking through Anacostia at night.
RE: working overseas
I agree that overall Turkey was one of the better places that I have worked. I was there twice. I did get really sick for a month after eating at one place though.
I missed the festivities in Riyadh but still got there in time to pick up pieces of scuds at the various impact sites around the city. One was right next to the office. Destroyed the national identity card issuing center or something like that. Saadam launched a couple in 1993 or so, but I think they went into the Gulf.
Crossing borders is easiest away from checkpoints.
I've managed a number excursions w/o the usual formalities. Had to go back to a country I was deported from (no work permit) for a couple of weeks one time. That sure gives you a different perspective. When my permit was approved I had to cross the border to stamp my passport at the consulate in the next country then return legally. I worked in Laredo for a couple of years, so I knew how to do it. Still have the old passport with "DEPORTED" punched in the cover page.
The Turkish police can get pretty nasty if you cross the wrong path there, although I was never accorded the honor of a strip search. We had one guy they held for a weekend interrogation session when he had some dispute with the mafia at a place in Ankara. He wasn't a happy camper on Monday.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: working overseas
On my recent trip I had picked up a piece of coal (I'm kind of a rockhound) and I had carried it around in my suitcase for a couple of days before I said, hey its just coal and threw it away. Being an olive oil gormet, I had also managed to spill some on my briefcase, which I thought I had cleaned well. Apparently the explosive sniffers at Gatwick pick up very minute traces of hydrocarbons, any hydrocarbon. They turned both of them inside out, but didn't find anything. That was after I managed to get on a non-express train to Gatwick and into a security line that was running at less than 1/2 speed compared to the next line. I got to stay in the hotel that night.
BTW helpfull hint: Vodka spilled on your passport oblitherates visa stamps ... handy in case you ever need to extend your vacation.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: working overseas
We need some solutions:-
1) When you arrive in town try and meet the chief of police. Get his business card and keep in in your wallet next to the picture of wife and kids. Do the same with the mayor, head of the armed forces, minster of secret police or anyone who is in power. NB keep and eye on the local news as your new found friend may be public enemy number one tomorrow.
2) Buy the biggest bottles of water Evian or equal from the hotel and stash it somewhere where the maid cannot steal it.
3) Always carry torch
4) Always have two passports but never, ever show the two at the same time. They will think youa re a drug mule. Never use the same passport for srael as you do an Islamic country.
5) If asked about drugs pretend you are deaf. Do not get into any conversation about the subject. If pushed respond with thanks I have to take my heart attack pills now. Even bent customs/police/immigration officers dont want a body on their hands.
6) give up drinking. its probably more healthy any how.
RE: working overseas
I meet public enemy #1 in an English kabeb house. We're cool. They always ask me about drugs, because of all the Colombian stamps in one passport, so I do usually show the other, or at US Customs I can easily divert them with an Iranian prayer rug and a box of Cuban cigars. In the UK, a spent 9MM short cartridge works equally as well. Yes, the police chief is usually the one that sells the booze. I did give up booze, because I'm too cheap to pay $150/bottle. If in a capital city, see the Venezuelan commercial attache. If you ask, Israel will stamp your entry visa on another piece of paper. Same with Cuba and Libya. Technical update: Portable osmosis unit eliminates water bottles and a starscope is much better than a torch. Cost 125 £ in Reading. I wonder why they sell those in Reading?
----------------
A body bag makes a great place to disappear quickly. Used one even better.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
Thanks,
Scott
RE: working overseas
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT96kKoc7MA
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
RE: working overseas
My sister chose a different country in the middle east purely based on the cost of living.
RE: working overseas
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
I was blackmailed by Japanese admin guy into bringing porno back to Bahrain. I decided not to in the end. When I came back police were waiting for me and pulled me out. They found brown envelope but nothing interesting. So easy to get set up.
I agreed with all the descriptions. I loved the Bahraini driving test.All you had to do was to prove you could stop the car in 60 feet at a certain speed. The inspector is standing just behind the line you are supposed to stop at, watching you! Nuts! But true all accidents, trouble etc are expats fault even if you had nothing to do with it. A welding inspector joining us on the project left the pub 15 minutes later than me. There was trouble in the street and he was arrested and spent three days in jail before the company found him and got him released.
Biginch, did you get any scams run on you?
Robert Mote
www.motagg.com
RE: working overseas
RE: working overseas
She turned out to be a real piece of work. Getting canned hams through her friends with local PX access then selling them on to non-US expats. Then I caught her bringing in those little bottles of booze they'd serve on BA flights, just 'cause she thought it would be fun. I had her shipped out after I caught her at that and another thing that was shaping up with the company's housing manager! The biggest scam was the one the two US lawyers were running during the divorce. I was wondering why my lawyer never contested anything my X or the other lawyer said. Then it bacame just a little too obvious, even to me, that all 3 were in it together. I think I can probly include the judge too. Yes, make that 4. I term that moment, "My great awakening". I must have looked like the infamous Thanksgiving turkey up to then.
The Saudi driving test was reading the eye chart. It had one character, a tractor. The scarey bit is realizing that an accident would have been your fault even if you were hit by a 12 yr old kid making a U-turn on his red light. And you have to realize that, since they were timing the lights so that only one direction could move at any given time, that U-turn would be first across than into oncoming traffic. But I suppose there wasn't much chance of that, since it could technically only happen, if they were actually stopped for red light to begin with. I saw one old Cadillac running at about 150 mph go off the road and hit a light pole. Pushed the engine all the way back to the trunk. With no movie theaters, good auto crashes were a big form of entertainment there for the LIPs. I remember them crossing the road holding their kid's hands so everyone could get a real close up view.
We thought you guys living in Bahrain were the lucky ones and used to go there to catch up on all the movies we were missing. We spent many a weekend hardly ever leaving the theater, except to have a $10.00 beer once in awhile. I could have done that in Oslo. I'm still catching up on some of those old movies and the Friends and Cheers episodes I missed. Its a bit like having intermitant amnesia.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
The hardest part can be going back home.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas
Driver's license is easy in most places: pay your $3 for an international license and there is no test.
Israel had the worst and most scams I've encountered, generally low quality blackmail schemes. Seems like they would have benefited from a few Nigerian consultants.
Prague had the funniest, from Johnny Stalker red to people selling chickens out of a brief case in the alley, to people selling counterfiet US bills they made off an office copier.
BigInch,
I had to ship my X, also. The scams she tried to run and chronic public intoxication went beyond just embarrassing. I ran into the same problems with dirtbag lawyers; had to stay on a 31 hour flight to make it to court on time for custody fight. The dueling dirtbags were agreeing that my dirtbag would throw the case. He didn't recognize me, so I asked a couple people to listen to the discussion, we had a closed door meeting with the judge, dirtbag disbarment followed, and I have custody. After 10 years, the X still tries to run low life scams.
RE: working overseas
Excellent work. Good on you! If I had been smarter before that happened, I would have known to leave things alone until she got 20 lashes and deported.
**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/
RE: working overseas