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B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

(OP)
OK, this is the situation I have.  I hope someone can help!

* Fisher control valves handling anhydrous ammonia (liquid and vapor).

* Client spec requires B31.3 compliance.

* Client opinion (not spec) is anhydrous ammonia is Catefory M fluid service.

* Client asked for NDE requirements on these control valves based on Category M fluid service.

Questions:

(1) Does anhydrous ammonia fall under Category M fluid service?

(2) If so, what NDE requirements should I impose on the control valves?

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

The code says that, if the owner says its M, its M.  Its not a question you need to ask.

See the code for component requirements.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

pflow.....

"BIGINCH" is right... you must assume that the owner knows what he is doing and follow his requirements.

However, IMHO it is useful to point out that having owner designate piping in the dreaded B31.3 "Category M" service, makes the service designation of the ammonia vessel suspect.

Must the ammonia pressure vessel be designed as ASME VIII "Lethal Service" ? This will cost huge $$$$$.

After all, the adjoining piping is to be designed using the functional equivalent; isn't this just being consistant ?

More fun reading:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=79125

Tell us more about the system and about any changes that the client may be considering

My opinion only.....

-MJC

 

   

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

As you can see by the main arguments in that thread, the hard work has already been done; the owner says its M, so its M.  Its his call.

See this book clip,
http://books.google.es/books?id=tlfMv1stDyoC&pg=PA497&lpg=PA497&dq=anhydrous+ammonia+category+M&source=bl&ots=tcMTnybtQp&;sig=OHCMtHXghfG2Nb50SUEXi1Hqjeg&hl=en&ei=TQWpSsfSEJmhjAegpKj1Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#v=onepage&q=anhydrous%20ammonia%20category%20M&f=false

Personally it doesn't bother me at all that they want to call it a CAT M.  I was very nearby when this accident happened, http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1977/HAR7701.htm

Then again B31.4 covers pipelines transporting liquids, among one of which can be anhydrous ammonia and there's no extra special additional provisions required there.

Just boils down to, "The guy with the gold makes the rules." If he has such a respect for his facilities and personnel, who are we to argue that he's wrong.  The hard work's done, so stop worrying about it and just get busy with the implementation.



 

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

OK, BigInch,
Just where were you that day?
around San Filipe & the loop?
the Galaria?
in Greenway?
I was at 9009 W Loop near Braeswood.

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

Right across the street from you.  Or is that the same address I can't remember now, @Fluor.   

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

Lo mismo.

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

How about that?  Small world.
Worked a couple years there, then went to  Davy Powergas, Lockwood Andrews Newnum, B&R South Tx project, Lumus, Northern Natural Gas, South Texas Gas, Transco, Global Eng., Pipeline Technologists, Bechtel, Enron/Northern Engineering ... then I branched out.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

We may have crossed paths again at CE/ABB Lummus Crest if you were there in the late 80's and early 90's.

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

very early 80'S

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

Sooooo.....

"Homecoming week" seems to be over now....

How about my question.... if, at the reqest of the owner, we have a Category M piping system design, shouldn't we also have a ASME "lethal service" vessel attached ?

Where are the boundaries ?

   

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

What's the owner say?

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: B31.3 Category M for Control Valve Handling Anhydrous Ammonia

For another angle, drive past many rural areas.  Perhaps you might see tanks of anhydrous ammonia.  Perhaps they are connected behind tractors as they prepare to drill their fields with wheat seeds, etc.

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