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bhart192 (Civil/Environmental)
21 Aug 09 13:29
I have a client who has a SMAW  welding procedure based on ASME IX ,the base metal used for the WPS was(  SA 53 B ,P1 Group 1  welded to P1 group 1) ,we have a vessel which needs repair which is constructed with SA 455 ,which is P1 group 2 ,questions ,based on ASME IX do we need to requalify our SMAW procedure  I looked at QW403.50 which seems to say yes based on p number group number however QW424.1 seems to state any WPS qualified with a P number is qualified to weld any metal with the same P number ,without any mention of Grup Numbers  
JStephen (Mechanical)
21 Aug 09 15:49
I believe the group number is a supplementary essential variable, required if impact testing is required for the procedure qualification.
DVWE (Petroleum)
21 Aug 09 16:51
If your vessel was built with impact requirements, then you are required to use a weld procedure qualified with the same P-Number and Group-Number.

If your vessel was built without impact requirements (as per code exemptions) then Group-Number is insignificant, and you would only need the same P-Number for your weld procedure.

As mentioned above, it is a supplementary essential variable.
GenB (Mechanical)
25 Aug 09 23:47
Documentation: just fill up a new WPS with the supplementary information and you're okay.
 
steris (Mechanical)
15 Sep 09 12:03
DVWE -

That information is very helpful.  Thank you so much!  Do you know if that is specifically stated anywhere in the code?  I'm not very familiar with Section IX and haven't had any luck find it.  Any references would be tremendously helpful.  Thanks again for your help!

Best,
Steris
metengr (Materials)
15 Sep 09 14:24
steris;
Here is some background information;

1. Section IX only provides guidance for weld procedure and welder qualification (brazing included). There are no design and fabrication requirements or rules for design.

2. The other ASME Code book sections like I, III, IV, VIII, etc are specific construction codes that deal with material, design, fabrication and inspection/test requirements. Impact testing requirements or exemptions would be found in the particular book section - for pressure vessels Section VIII, for reactor vessels - Section III, Power boilers, Section I, etc.
 
DVWE (Petroleum)
15 Sep 09 16:25
steris,

In Section IX, start at QW-250, and then reference the tables QW-252 thru QW-265 as they apply to you.  You can read the specific section referenced in those tables in the "Supplementary Essential" column, but specifically QW-403.5(b) comes to mind with regards to this issue.  Keep in mind that it is in reference to Group-No.

The rules as mentioned above with regards to specific codes of construction is correct.  Which of the codes are you using?
stanweld (Materials)
16 Sep 09 13:05
bhart192,
Aside from the comments provided above, will the weld filler metal specified in your WPS qualified on the P1 Group1 material provide/assure the required strength for the P1 Group 2 materials? If so and the part to be welded is not subject to impact testing, you may use the existing WPS.   

steris (Mechanical)
17 Sep 09 16:47
Thank you all for the very helpful information!!  

Currently we are using SA-285C (P1 Group 1) but are looking to switch to SA-516-70 (P1 Group 2).  We are construction in accordance with Section VIII Div 1 and are exempt from impact testing.  

I have checked out QW-403.5 and it seems that the answer does lie in that paragraph.  It appears that the only thing left to check is that the essential and supplementary essential variables are constant (with the exception of the group number).

Thanks again for all the help!

-Steris

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