Silicate for Clunkers
Silicate for Clunkers
(OP)
One of the requirements of the current "cash for clunkers" program in the U.S. is that the cars traded in be scrapped. The news media has further reported that sodium silicate is dumped into the engine to render it inoperable. Anyone know how this would disable an engine? I am thinking that since sodium silicate has been used to impregnate casting porosity, it may be sealing up the small oil holes in the crank and rods. But, anyone know for sure?





RE: Silicate for Clunkers
Some engines seem to conk out within seconds, others keep going for 5 - 10 minutes and only seem to stop running due to overheating and/or lack of lubrication.
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
Regards
Pat
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RE: Silicate for Clunkers
in which cars were built and scrapped without being sold, in order to provide employment.
Life is getting perilously close to satire.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Silicate for Clunkers
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
From a moral standpoint, another way to criticize it is that the folks who were owning/operating gas guzzlers get the bail out in preference to owners of say 15 year-old Corollas, as I don't think the FE spread on those is enough to qualify? Sort of like subprime mortgage bailouts, or even the UAW winding up with significant ownership of GM. Like a bad parent the US guvment (-we) seems to be rewarding a lot of bad behaviour lately . . .
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
The primary goal was what? To help the auto industry sell more cars? Or save the environment?
Once you put the two together you can't help compromising both objectives.
I have no doubt there would be a lot more old cars scrapped if they had a simple date range in mind.
Once you start scraping cars for environmental reasons you'd better be sure your objectives and calculations are sound.
First off maybe they should only subsidise hybrids, oh, wait, there are already subsidies for hybrids somewhere....
But, is it good scrapping old cars simply because they are old gas guzzlers? chances are that some of them would actually have run for a good deal longer with a much better ashes to ashes figure.
Maybe this would have been better if it took off the road vehicles that were inefficient due to their maintenance and current actual emissions and not their book guide emissions. Not to difficult to measure, they should be measured for their annual tags anyway.
Maybe the best bet would have been to target cars with very poor ashes to ashes figures.
The reports on this all seem to focus on current models but it shouldn't be oo hard to work back to older models.
If it were me, I'd be very concerned to see perfectly good engines being destroyed in the name of the environment. I mean, the engine already exists and might have another good few years in it.
Shortening the life expectancy really means seriously affecting the ashes to ashes energy content.
The reality ought to be that we should be looking to encourage vehicles that last pretty much forever and re-engining them or upgrading their environmental controls as and when.
Someone must have, if this is responsible legislation, worked out the optimum break-even for net-energy benefit.
Two interesting weblinks:
Ashes to ashes:
http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/
http:/
And a comment on how energy efficiency will be met in the future:
http:
And then there is the Jevons Principle....
http://www.progressive.org/mag/mpdubro020309.html
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
"Someone must have, if this is responsible legislation, worked out the optimum break-even for net-energy benefit."
You're kidding, right?
old field guy
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
- Steve
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
No, I really don't think they did any in depth thinking. That is not the nature of political decisions and as a consequence they always seem to either miss the target or fall foul of the law of unintended consequences.
In the UK they are reporting a surge in new car sales.
http
but note the comment at the end:
I don't know how the UK scheme compares to the US scheme, I got as far as discovering my car didn't qualify against the US scheme qualifications, I haven't checked the UK yet.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
I find the 15-yr cut-off interesting; that almost guarantees that all the older cars with V8's will still be available to donate their engines to the hot rod crowd.
What I find the most inequitable is the credit given for trading in a > 6000 lb GVW truck for a similar one; these are largely owned by people depreciating the cost of the truck already, now they're getting a bonus? And the newer trucks are in many cases less fuel efficient (but cleaner).
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 ford explorers
97 ford winstar vans
jeep cherokee and grand cherokee
99 dodge caravan
and they are buying;
ford focus
honda civic
toyota carolla
toyota prius
ford escape
toyota camry
dodge caliber
hyundai elantra
honda fit
chevy cobalt
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
What I don't get is that he didn't strip any of the good stuff off the car?! All it needs to qualify is be drivable. They don't care if the radio, the instruments, etc are there.
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
You're right tho, I was looking at these cars about 10 yrs ago, and they were shunned by the Maserati crowd as not "real" Masers, and their reliability problems were well known. Personally, I'd have swapped in a different engine before giving up on that black one.
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
RE: Silicate for Clunkers
Ergo, to work best it is wise not to worry about a few short term environmental concerns though of course, if they can move people from gas guzzlers to fuel sippers there may be some gains.
The trouble is that it is best to focus on very high mileage gas guzzlers else if lower mileage vehicles are removed the environmental gains from an ashes to ashes perspective may be compromised.
The trouble with that is that most owners of high mileage low value vehicles will tend to run them till they drop and then buy some suitable low price high mileage replacement and not go buy a brand new car. I'd guess most new cars sales originate from fleet buyers or from people who always trade in their last car within a year or two of new when they get the best trade in.
So I am at a loss to see how the UKs rules actually work because the new car buyer has to have owned his old clunker for at least a year.
But work they appear to if the SMMT figures are to be believed.
Of course, it could be that cash for clunkers is a coincidental circumstance to a natural recovery, or that some people have found a way round the rules, sold their two year old cars privately and bough an old wreck for peanuts to use in the new car purchase trade in. If anyone knows how, let me know.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Silicate for Clunkers