What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
(OP)
It has been customirized that all engineering projects has to be designed by the appointed Consultant and the nominated Contractor by the Consultant/Client has to construct or build.That is to say the Design is carriedout by the Consultant.Built has to be carried out by the Contractor.But now days the role of design and built have been given to the Contractor.This implimentation has any foundamental experience or is that matter of sacrifing the strength and durability of the project?





RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
If you're:
The developer, you love the idea, you get a cheaper building that you can flog off. Not a fan of the developer quick build and sell type projects myself. There is always a time and expenses problem which leads to less durable products/quality products ending up in the buildings. However there are also build and own developers these guys are normally completely the opposite and are awesome to work with, but they normally don't run technically complete D&C items.
The builder, you love the idea, you get to control the engineer, but you also better not stuff up, as there is no extra's to be sort. But you also can cut money from the budget by getting less quality stuff.
The engineer, not as great as you loose the ability to enforce quality over cost. Generally the builder will have a set design, so they will use this, even when better alternatives could be sort. If there are problems on site with construction were you may ask for something but instead of having the backing of the client you will have nothing but your ethics. Can be hard when you're trying to put food on your table.
The architect, Generally the building gets simplified and made a bit boring, your job in the need for money saving ends up just showing doors in the right place, no features ect.
The owner, Depends on your wants, but most building have higher maintenance costs for structural issues. The idea of the "old way" was the engineer was n your side and would make dam sure that you didn't get a lemon, with D&C, there is a higher chance you will get a lemon.
The council, if a council project, you love this because you have no responsibility. Unfortunately this normally means councils have a high maintenance cost for projects, even simple ones. Which guess who pays for? Yes you got it, the tax payer.
I should also mention that the D&C area in my part of the world is heavily used in the sheds and tilt box constructions. This can even go to the point where an engineer will design a standard shed series that will be used for 1000's of sheds that the engineer charges a pittance and the design end up looking like if was drawn on the back of a napkin. The need for savings in building has lead to a general lowering of the engineering design standard. This has also lead to engineers having to charge less to win the projects, which again has lead to lowering of design standards. Currently this is a major blight in my profession in my part of the world, with steps, being taken to rectify the currently design differences.
So it could be said that D&C projects has lead to a greater risk in design being taken by engineers. With effects like what I saw during Tropical Cyclone Larry in Innisfail the general conclusion from the reports thus far have been 90% of non expected structural failures were in the D&C shed market.
When in doubt, just take the next small step.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
When a non-engineer has authority over an engineer, and little understanding of the engineering process, then either the engineer has to compromise his design more than he would otherwise do and quality/reliability may suffer, or the project will make less money and the contractor/developer have to compromise profitability...which one will win?...I've seen very few developers sacrifice profit for quality, though I have dealt with contractors who would do so.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
The demerits of design/build include:
1. Poor project scope definition at beginning of projects. Project scope is typically defined 2-3 months into the project after preliminary work has already started
2. Tradeoffs on quality during the project to meet the project budget.
3. This type of project requires a more skilled project management staff.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
The award of the contract to a design/build consortium that was not the low bidder, but it was selected and Wisconsin and some contractors filed a suit and that appeal was rejected.
The group with the the same group that rebuilt the 8 lane I35 bridge over the Mississippi River in Minneapolis. On that project, they were not the low bidder by $30-40 million and got a $20 million bonus for early completion (based on the formula of 1/2 of the excess cost caused in detours and traffic delays in the bid documents). The project was completed in 9 months (about 3 months early) and the $20 million more than covered the extra overtime and labor costs for the 24x7 construction. Strangely, there was barely a murmmer about the bonus since it wan fast and and cleanly according to the state requirements. The presentation blew all the price contractors out of the water and the PR and contact with the public before, during and after the construction was great. There even was an opportunity to for advance input on the noise/scheduling. The doors to the precast operation were open to all engineering groups and the media and the public had an opportunity to select the column/superstructure profile and even the color.
The key was the complete coordination of the design and construction for maximum performance. This permitted the fast completion under controlled conditions. The first concrete was poured when it was about -20F.
This is not the first done by the group in Minnesota. A few years ago, the same group did a much higher and possibly longer 4 lane replacement bridge over the Mississippi river in St. Paul that also required good appearance and on time or early completion.
As far as I know, they do not bother with buildings.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
It was interesting to get their viewpoint (schedule was the most important factor, rather than materials) and what they're really concerned about (access; laydown; etc).
It all depends on the contractor you're teaming with.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
This project has gone much more smoothly than many of my previous projects which have been run by architects.
I have not encountered any adversarial posturing by the contractor.
Part of this is also that the architects I have worked with generally do not know how to run a project. They are artists, which are necessary, but I cannot fathom how many clients do not seem to see their incompetence in project management and continue to pay out ridiculous change orders over the course of several projects.
There have been a few issues that have come up where I was pressured to back down. On a couple, I thought about it and decided that I might be too conservative and changed the specifications.
On things that I thought were more important, I wouldn't budge. The contractor complained a little bit but that was it.
We have a good relationship with the contractor even when they don't agree. They understand that the engineer has the final word and if they don't like it they'll get another engineer.
They continue to use us and I look forward to working with them again.
A couple of the engineers in my office are also doing design-build projects. In general, these projects run more smoothly than design-bid-build. I believe this is because everyone is on the same team rather than the contractor trying to squeeze anything they can out of the project.
I agree with JedClampett, it's all about the contractor. I wouldn't do design-build with a few of them.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
thread765-251081: exposed foundation
When in doubt, just take the next small step.
RE: What are the merits and demerits of the Design and Built projects?
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