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I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?
20

I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
This is my first job, my first redundancy; I have never imagined I'd leave the company of being made redundant. We're not picking up any work, over 1/3rd of people have to go, and more than ten people have already gone. In my department they only want to keep the manager, and everyone else has to go, fair enough, all clear and straight forward, but somehow I just can't accept it. It happened all too quickly.

I have been looking for jobs (again) since I heard the news, I know it's a good chance for me to finally move on, but so far I have got rejected by two companies and am still waiting for response from many others.

How should I look at myself now? A loser? Although In the past years I have got very good feedbacks from both my colleagues and clients regarding my work, my confidence is slowly ebbing away... I start to doubt my ability... After getting a good class MEng degree I thought I was worth something; now at age of 25 I'm unemployed!

Is there something wrong with my CV? Or my limited experience is holding me back? Or perhaps, I should change directions...?

Help me through the misery please...

x

P.S if a similar post already exist, please let me know and I shall close this one

Thanks
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

What's the big deal?  I got laid off 3 times in the same summer by the same company.  

You're already too young to be thinking that you were going to work for the same company for the rest of your life.  No company is going to "take care" of you, like family.  That's the bad news.  The good news is that means that layoffs, today, have little stigma attached, they're simply a pure economics question.   

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Yea, the days of a lifelong employer are done.  We're all just beans for the beancounters to decide if we fit in the yearly budget or not.

Use it as an opportunity to live in a new place, get a raise, a new industry with new connections, etc.

You'll be good.  I'm only 27 and I'm at my 5th place since I started my career 10 years ago.  I had one I was at like 4 years, but got laid off like 4-5 times, and my unemployment was drained.  So I moved to another for like 9 months, they didn't want to give me a raise and I got an offer to double my salary so I left there.  Got laid off from the next one after a year and a half.  Now I've been where I'm at about 2.5 years.

Some people have commented on my "jumping" around, but I explain to them why and it's not so bad.

Good luck with the job hunt.

James Spisich
Design Engineer, CSWP

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

4
In the course of your career, you are highly likely to be hired, fired, recruited, poached, promoted, demoted, made redundant, overpaid, underpaid, overworked, underutilized (not as nice as it sounds), worshipped, reviled, misunderstood, overestimated, underappreciated, ...and almost always for the wrong reasons.

Unless you plan to die where you stand, keep pressing on.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

3
Cutiee...

Metaphorically, my late uncle would have put it this way:

It's definitely not the end of the world.  Just the end of an early chapter in your book.  Keep writing, starting with this new chapter.  The book gets better.

Being terminated for any reason sucks.  In the downsizing game, if numbers have to come up, sometimes yours is one of the numbers that comes up.

The first time I was ever "let go" (laid off) at about your age, I went to the kind lady in Human Resources and asked, "What do I do now?".  Her reply was quite straightforward and compassionate: "That's *your* problem.  I have never lost *my* job.".

That sure took the sting out of it.

The biggest source of encouragement I can offer you comes from your own post.  You have looked at the facts and have already started examining yourself and how *you* can improve.  You have begrudged nobody and have not spoken ill of your former employer.  That's exactly the thing that ultimately successful people do.  However, try to keep words like "loser" out of your vocabulary during your period of introspection.

Surround yourself with friends, family and colleagues, dust yourself off, never doubt yourself or your ability, and move on.

Best of luck to you.  If I can help in any way, let me know.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
ok, thanks, just felt a bit down because got rejected by a couple of companies, just have to keep on trying!  

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Keep in mind that the economy worldwide is in pretty rough shape.  No shame in being a victim of that.  Anyway, why not try to work at a public utility or other public agency?  At least here in the US, the public utilities still offer better benefits, pension plans, more security, etc.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

100 companies may reject,but all you are looking for is one yes. So keep the chin up and keep looking. Remember 80% of the employment opportunities in the USA are NOT advertised.

Knock the doors of every company in your locality and not wait for ads. This is more true for less experienced people or entry level jobs.

Rafiq Bulsara
http://www.srengineersct.com

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

2
Cutiee, I don't know for sure how things are in the UK but if it's anything like the US job market at the moment things are a bit tuff.  Heck, even back in 04/05 when things weren't tuff I had a heck of a time finding my first Engineering job in the US (having moved from the UK).

In the current climate, and the situation you describe, there's no real shame in having been laid off.

Also, given some of your other tales about the place, you may be better off without them (though the financial implications right now may not make it seem like it).

You'll probably get a bunch of rejections, and likely even more complete lack of responses.

Just keep plodding away.  There have been quite a few threads about tips for job hunting etc, maybe you'll find something of help in one of those.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
it's really quiet in the UK as well =/  

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

2

You need to reinforce in your own mind that you are not defined by your job.  You are the same person whether you are a bartender or working with a team of engineers on the next major technological discovery.  You have not changed, only your circumstances.

When you are not actively interviewing or mailing out resumes, find something to do that makes you feel good about yourself.  I recommend any physical activity and volunteer work.  If you can, squeeze in some self-improvement to make yourself more marketable like taking classes at the local community college.  Or just do it for fun.
 

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
I'm learning to play piano, it might boost my confidence?...  

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I've been turned down by many companies, and most of those just stopped returning phone calls.  At least you got a response.

I wouldn't worry about it, companies are looking for THE candidate in this economy because they feel they can be ultra-picky.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Big question: are you prepared to relocate? In a town like Aberdoom where all the jobs are tied to one industry it might be tougher than average.

There are definitely jobs in the power indsutry but I don't know how transferable your skills are - mine were pretty transferrable the other way into O&G. Polish up your CV!
 
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

My easiest way to find a job is contracting through an agency.  They know the market and you can easily know who is hiring.  I must of registered with 10 contracting agencies, play them off on each other.  Look at it as a game, I did and interviewing became to me a bit of an acting job.  Ask yourself, do I want to work here when your interviewing?  This is your chance for a big raise and you can be picky too!

Looking for a job is a journey to me.  You can be miserable or you can have fun with it.

There are support groups out there that focus on job search, so seek them out, to get your attitude on right.  When your with people that have the same perdicament, they can easily pull you up from the misery you are experiencing.

Even when you contract you can make up your mind if you want to work there and if you don't, who cares, it was a contract job anyway.  You finished the work and now for the next assignment.  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee ... No it isn't the end of the world ... just the end of the beginning. The best is yet to come. While you are unemployed, looking for a job should be your job. Keep your normal working hours and maybe even do some overtime.

KENAT ... I know you've finally received your US citizenship but, come on ... "tuff" ... shame on you.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
KENAT, how's life in the USA? Is it better to work in the USA? I heard they only get 10 days holiday work longer hours?...

ScottyUK, I'm willing to relocate (except London and North Island) and change directions, I have spent an entire week working on my CV, it looks pretty good, so is your company looking for a young, motivated, intelligent and hard working engineer? :) If so, I shall forward my CV to you... :) (It doesn't hurt to ask...)

controlsdude, I have registered with agencies, but even the agencies admit that the market is rather quiet at the moment, but I will keep trying.

CorBlimeyLimey, yes indeed, it's not the end of the world, after a bit of shopping, I have cheered up a lot and not giving up on looking for jobs.

x

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee,

I moved to London at the end of the last big recession in the 90's. I promise it's not somewhere to dismiss without trying if there is a good position with a good employer - people who I'd have sworn would hate the place have loved it and vice-versa. Personally I hated it but I don't think you really know until you try. It was an invaluable step in my career looking back, so even though I didn't stay it was worth being there for a while.

I don't mind having a look over your CV, I might be able to add a few ideas which would attract a recruiter's eye and could possibly give you a few hints on companies to try so you can make your own approach. If you know what the unadvertised vacancy is then it is much easier to tailor your appraoch to suit. wink Make sure your CV highlights your transferable skills. I don't think we're recruiting right now for anyone electrical although I'll check tomorrow, but I know my last two positions with two different employers haven't been filled yet so there are certainly positions out there. I can think of at least one other company who were recruiting recently but need to check with my contact there.

Just need to figure out how to establish contact without breaking the site rules about email addresses!
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Ah, shopping; just avoid the girl in the green scarf.

As for holdiays, your mileage may vary.  While I get one less week of vacation than my wife, she actually has way fewer days off than me, as I have more holidays off.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee, generally speaking in private industry, conditions for employees are not as good in most cases, except pay.

Less "vacation" typically 10 days when you start though many places increase over time.

Perhaps slightly more 'holidays' (bank holidays in the UK) but again it depends on employer.

Unless you have it in your contract in many places there are few explicit rules over severance pay/redundancy pay etc.  Many states are 'right to work' or have "at will employment" which basically means they can let you go with no notice without giving any reason.  In practice most engineering firms do seem to give some kind of severance but in many cases don't have to.

You'll also likely work more hours, I worked 37.5 in the UK though often an extra couple.  In the US it's usually 40 minimum often with more pressure/expectation to do more.

I stress that it does vary by employer and if you have a contract or it's a union place etc. but the above are the trends as I perceive them.

I moved here because my wife is a US citizen, not to chase work.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Having been through a redundancy myself at a similar age, I can also assure you that its not the end of the world. Granted, the economy was in a different shape when I was 'escorted' from the premises, but thats not to say that there aren't any jobs around.

One of the things I discovered is that it pays to both chase up the oppportunities that present themselves, and to know who you're dealing with in terms of the recruitment process.

I gained an interview with a consultancy firm as I followed up the application, the HR department had initially binned my application as unsuitable, but in the follow up conversation I managed to get my details passed onto an actual engineer, and then got the interview.

The bottom line is, the recruitment process can often be filled with hurdles that seem unpassable unless you can find ways around them. Your applications may be in the same category, and unfortunately theres often no way of knowing why you weren't deemed as suitable. If you understand this, then you can work to get around the hurdles, and ultimately, to your next job.

As I recall, your employer wasn't the best at guidance, mentoring or supervision so you now have a great opportunity to dedicate all your time to finding a better one.

Good luck with it all, and remember, its often a far better opportunity than you may think at the moment. Mine certainly was.  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

<sarcastic> WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!

Cutiee,
Don't punish your self.
Most of us have been through it.
Stick in there; you are still young enough to read about this in future history books.

Chris
SolidWorks 09, CATIA V5
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Hey Cutiee,

Firstly, since you're based in the UK, it is the job which is made redundant, not the person. I know it's easier to say "I" got made redundant (and i'm guilty of it too) but you mustn't confuse the two!. You are definitely not a loser. "I" got made redundant when i was 30 and whilst it came as a shock (The whole shop floor was told 3 days before the xmas break!) it is NOT the end of the world. In the end it was a good thing for me but you need to remain positive and use the time wisely.

Do you qualify for a redundancy payment, if not then you need to work quickly. If this is a collective redundancy situation (i.e. more than 20 posts, which it sounds like) then by law the company is required to give you 90 days notice, otherwise you are entitled to 1 week notice for every year worked.

If you have been continuously employed for two years by the date your notice expires, you are allowed a reasonable amount of time off during your notice period to look for another job or arrange training to help you find another job
How long you can take will depend on your circumstances. If you attend an interview or two and do not take excessive amounts of travelling time, then this is likely to be reasonable. You should ask your employer what arrangements have been made to allow this.

When i got made redundant they offered us the services of an external adviser for things like CV construction, interview technique (we all get rusty) and sourcing training. Take advantage of any help offered.

Have you considered contract work? - E&I engineers are generally sought after, try contacting some of the agencies like Matchtech or Gold Group (two that i've used in the past) to see what sort of work they might have. Some are prepared to "employ" you under an umbrella type arrangement if you're unsure about setting up on your own.

Use this as an opportunity - and remember (as others have said) that being laid off / made redundant is just part of the landscape now. Everyone is likely to experience it at some point in their lives, there are no "jobs for life" anymore!

Kind regards, HM



 

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

When I was looking for my first job I sent out an embarassing number of applications, had two telephone interviews, and two in person. Looking back now the way I presented myself in my cover letter and CV left a lot to be desired.

I sent out about 80 applications (significantly less than my first job search) before I found my second job. Having some experience and a better cover letter and CV also helped. From 80 applications I was invited to 8 different interviews and 4 companies made an offer.

Now, on my third job search I've sent away 15-20 applications. No one has showed interest yet.

My first two job searches were specifically aimed at the automotive industry, and both were at times when there weren't many jobs on offer.

Don't be too disappointed with not getting a job after sending away two applications. Just do what I'm doing - be persistant and keep sending them out till you find a job. Simple. Depressing? At times. As one of the previous posters said, treat your job search like a 9-5 job and you'll eventually find something.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee,

It is very sparse out there.

9 months ago I had 5 job offers in two weeks, now I am struggling to get an interview.

Because they can, the employers are being very fussy about candidates ticking all the boxes of their job requirements. Make sure that you justify each and every point in your CV or cover letter.

Good luck.  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
Thanks again to all of you.
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Another angle you might want to try is all those business cards that you collect from venders and customers.  Call them up and network them to see if anyone is hiring.  This helped me find my friend a job not too long ago.  The point is if they say there not hiring, they might know someone who is hiring.

Or they might know that someone is getting ready to hire and have not put that requirment for an engineer on that street.  That way you get the jump on all the competition.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Engineers are treated like migrant workers with a calculator, as someone described on another message board. Had I known this earlier, I would've become an auto mechanic.

Cutiee, don't feel bad about being unemployed due to circumstances beyond your control. The economy is in historically bad shape, allowing employers to have a large talent pool to choose from. Search for jobs, but don't let it consume all your time.   

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?


No it's not the end of the world.  I believe that's scheduled for 2012.  With a bit of luck and a whole lot of finagling, you can get your unemployment benefits to last that long so you never have to worry about work again.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I was told you can expect to be made redundant 2 or 3 times in your working life so don't look on the 1st time as being too bad. The worst is when you go for an interview for your next job and you're asked why did they pick you and not somebody else. Have a snappy answer ready instead of sobbing into your coat sleeves. Say something like 'they decided to leverage their strategic objectives away from your aspirational alignment'. They'll offer you the manager's job for sure.  

corus

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

corus,

'they decided to leverage their strategic objectives away from your aspirational alignment'

Heh.  That made me laugh.  I'll have to remember that one.  My favorite answer to a silly interview questions is:

'What is your weakest point as an employee?'

'Well I'm so attractive that I tend to be distracting to other employees'

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Don't be so hard on yourself.  Sounds like the economy hit your company hard. .... just like every other company in the world.  Try not to take it as something you personally did wrong.  Also, the job search is going to be rough for a while as well.  Once again, not your fault.  The economy blows right now.  There's not a lot of jobs out there and more and more people are getting the axe.  Unfortunately, the companies that are hiring have a large pool of candidates to pull from and it's harder to get noticed.  You got a job in the first place so you obviously have what's needed to land a good job.  Keep plugging away at it, something will come up.  Also, I have a suspicion that companies aren't going to crucify anyone who's been laid off this year.  How can they hold it against you when it's happening to so many people.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

You're 25 and hopefully just got a nice redundancy payout?  Sounds like the perfect time to take a year or two off to travel!

The British pound will still stretch a long way in places like New Zealand if you want somewhere english-speaking, and even further if you don't!

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

cutie,

I would like to second a lot of what has been said here.  I lost my first job after 6 months.  I wasn't laid off, I was fired.  This was a blow to my ego, but I got over it.  It took me about 5 more months to find a new job, but I did.  Being laidoff during a recession holds no shame.  So, what's that very british saying, "keep your pecker up"?  I think if you said that in the states you'd get slapped, but I've been told it's acceptable on your side of the pond.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

"Keep your chin up"? Never heard your version - must be a southern thing. tongue
  

----------------------------------
  
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I heard "keep your pecker up" before. But only here in Canada.

peace

Fe

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

"Keep your pecker up" is (was) very definitely used down south. Pecker in this case being the nose. I thought it was country wide.

After getting settled in Ontario, my wife was attending a Catholic church and we got to know the priest fairly well. One day the priest was unloading some of his personal problems on her and after a while she told him to "keep his pecker up". smile The look on his face was priceless. Fortunately he was of British descent so understood what she meant ... and had to explain. smile Then the look on her face was priceless.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee

How many meals did you miss before you even heard of the company that laid you off?  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
You are right controlsdude, I have spoken to my vendors, and surprisingly they are all very helpful! They forwarded my CV to people they know who might have a job for me, also got me contacts for companies I might like to work for, a couple of them said would like to hire, but unfortunately, due to the recession, they haven't got enough work to recruit...

Corus, I was told similar, now I had my first redundancy, at least I'm prepared for next time...

Mgtrp, I don't get redundancy pay at all, because worked less than 2 years, I will be all right for a year or so without a job, but I really would like to have a job to prove myself worthwhile :s

lol, KirbyWan, I have never heard 'keep your pecker up', maybe they don't say that to ladies... 'keep your chin up' is the saying, I have been told by many :)

 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

first time, i was laid off.....it was a numbers thing.  20% let go, and everyone got a pay cut.  it stung, it sucked, and no one was hiring.  i liked the position.  so i just prayed, and about a month later a "job" came by.  note that i didn't say career.  

2nd time, i was "fired."  boss's sons didn't like me.  apparently, i didn't work well with them.  i was elated, happy, and content that i was leaving a company chock full of imbeciles.  i learned alot of about myself, too.  maybe that was a lesson the good Lord was trying to teach me.

don't worry about it.  you'll be fine.  you're not the first, you won't be the last, and you're not part of a few.  it is what it is.  the only way to not get fired is to work for yourself.  just keep looking and stay positive.   

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
this is already the fourth week since I was made redundant, and still no sign of jobs =/, not even a phone call... don't know what I am doing wrong here :(  

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Yes being laid-off is a hit on the ego... don't let it bother you. Finding a job is much harder that  actually doing the job.
  1. Get uo in the morning with a sense of purpose.  
  2. Check you emails, follow-up on any lead ASAP
  3. Send email and CV out to recruiters and companies.
  4. Research companies that you mihjt be interested in.
  5. Plan on spending 12 to 18 hours per day searching for a job.

  6. [li] Join some professional online networks, such as
  7. Linkedin.com.
  8. Post your CV to online databases.
  9. Are you a member of a technical society IET, IEEE etc.? if so, network with other members.
Plan ahead- even after you obtain a job, keep your CV updated and handy... you never know.
 

What do you like to do, your hobbies, etc.? Can you make some moolah doing this.

Writing an article for a trade journal get you a lot of exposure.

Think positive, keep smiling.
 
  

Vita sine litteris mors est.  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee, it took me 4 months to find my first job out of uni (well probably more as I'd applied a few places while still at uni) so 4 weeks really isn't that much.

Just keep plugging away.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee, don't wait for the phone calls. If you're applying direct to the company for an advertised position, find out who its going to, and at least call them to confirm.

You don't need to discuss the state of the world and all of the small talk that goes with it, but just a follow up, such as 'Have you received the application? Is there any more information that you'd require for the applicaton?' and so on can help. If you don't do this, and they don't call back, you have no idea on why you may not have been successful, and even if they say no when you talk to them, at least you have some feedback on what else to work on.

If you're mainly dealing with a HR department, see if you can get to talk to someone actually doing the job, or at least related to the position advertised. This way you can at least ensure that you may have more of a chance than HR incorrectly binning your application. HR generally knows nothing about what engineering does, so at least discussing the position with them, or a more relevant person, can always help.

Finally, one of the best books on the subject is Richard Bolles' "What Color Is Your Parachute". It has a lot of info on how to use contacts and head in the right direction.  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
Thanks guys. I'm doing all that's been suggested

One thing I can't quite figure out is:

Lots of the recruitment agencies I have registered with were recommended by my managers/colleagues and ex-colleagues, they were saying all those agencies tried to get them jobs, and they were actually annoyed by them, but somehow when I got in touch with those agencies, they just didn't seem to have anything for me, or never get back to me.

Well, the reasons I can think of are:

I ask for too little money. And I don't have the required experience and skills. =[

right?
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

While some recruitment agengies will pester fairly inexperienced engineers, for the most part they are after more experienced folks.  Partly because they can be more productive quicker (so it's what the clients want) and partly because commisions on them are larger.

From what I recall you only have maybe a couple of years experience.  This means that your ability to be put in a job and be highly productive straight away is limited and your rate wont be that high, as you guessed.

This is all too disouraging though, have a cup of tea, keep your upper lip stiff and stick to it.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
*Cry on shoulder*, 18 months experience, hopeless =[



 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Obviously, no consolation that you're not alone.

However, given that, you need to look at how to make yourself stand out, overall attitude, confidence, etc.

Jobs don't always go to the most deserving; they go to the ones that did the best job marketing.  People tend to read between the lines, so everything you write or say needs to be carefully evaluated for any negative subtext.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutie,
If this helps you feel like that boat of your isn't all that lonely. Two guys got laid off from my company a while back (6 months). These two guys are still looking for work, not from lack of trying mind you. These two fellows' would have the complete opposite problem to you. These guys have both been in the game of engineering for 15+ yrs. The reason I believe they are struggling to get work is that they are people you would refer to as Jack of all trades, master of none.  They are finding it very hard to get an interview as a lot of employers are looking to the future, looking for people whom standout. I believe the new word is hype dynamic. To give you an assessment of the capabilities in my humble opinion, i would hire/recommend these guys at the drop of a hat, but alas it is not my decision.

So keep you chin up and be dynamic.
 

When in doubt, just take the next small step.
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Hmm, seems weird.  Usually, in down times, you tend to dump the junior specialists in favor a senior generalists, those JOATMONs, since it's usually easier to keep them busy with varied tasks.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee,

Maybe this will help cheer you up, or at least feel less lonely.

I work out of town, because the only significant industry where I live (Ridgecrest) is defence related and until recently I couldn't work in defence due to nationality issues.

Since I got my citizenship I've applied to a bunch of places, and went to a job fair on the local base where all the jobs are centered.

I haven't had a single response yet.

Just to rub it in there was an article in the LA times about how Ridgecrest is a boom town in these troubled times and they can't find anyone to employ etc.

Made me feel really greatwinky smile.

So, it's not just you.

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

IRstuff,
The day i understand management is the day I can truly call myself crazy.
However, I think it had something to do with pay levels (these guys were paid a bit more than me, with less seniority) and poor project selection for the capabilities of the office.
The sad thing is that now we have too much work, and I cannot get them to re-employee the redundant works because of ego's of the management.  

When in doubt, just take the next small step.
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Sure, but it takes all kinds.  Most of the time, trying to rehire doesn't work, because they decide that they don't want to take the risk of getting bumped later on.  But, then again, we had one guy who got rehired three times, and he had no problems with getting bumped, over and over.

As for management, it's often simply that what we, as engineers, perceive to be priorities often aren't.

Case in point, at a former IC company called F***, we had some serious downsizings, and a new GM, the 8th in 4 yrs, decided to cut all IR&D spending, and force last-time buys on our only cash cows.  Clearly psychotic to kill all potential future business and the lifeblood of the division, no?  

However, from his perspective, it was perfectly sane.  He deduced that he had less than 4 months to show a profit, or he would be fired.  And he recognized that if he showed a profit, he would be promoted.  In either scenario, the fate of the division was irrelevant to him after 5 months.  Therefore, the lack of future products was not his problem.  The killing of the cash cows wouldn't affect him in the short run, but he would get a 5x bump in the bottomline for each product killed.  He turned a profit on the 4th and 5th months, and he was indeed promoted on the 6th month.

So, what we saw as the killing of the division in the long run was correct, but irrelevant to his time horizon.  It makes him extremely shrewd, but an a**hole nonetheless.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Yeah, industry needs more people like him...
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Here i was thinking that my GM was a A**hole, this guy takes the cake.

You are right however there is definitely a different mind set. Instead of following my advice and getting an engineer on board that can help out, they have hired a newly Graduated student, because they are "cheap". ponder Not to say a grad can't help out, It just seems to be the wrong thought process to me.
  

When in doubt, just take the next small step.
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Hey Kenat...I figured out what's wrong with your resume!  On this side of the pond it's "defense" instead of "defence".  All those potential employers probably thought you were a fence installer. shadeshappy

Ron

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
'I'm not alone' only means I face more competition... I was confident, but I heard too many 'no's to believe in myself anymore. I just got turned down by a company I thought I had a good chance with. I'm feeling pretty @#&% at the moment.

During the redundancy process, company had to do a skills matrix; roughly every skill had maximum 5 points, some even less, so I guess the JOATMONs would score obviously more... (Person with lowest score had to go, but such a matrix wasn't done for me, because everyone in my department apart from the manager was made redundant.)

Hey, KENAT, how long have you been looking? I doubt you'd be out of work too long, with your experience, your (attractive) English accent... Americans would love to hire you.

rowingengineer just reminded me why I got employed... I was a 'cheap' graduate. My company tends to pay managers a lot, but very little to the rest, one manager (who's now got laid off) used to get paid 4 times more than the people who actually did some work in his department... So they could never keep skilled people in the company...

The job advertised was 'graduate electrical engineer', once I started, my title became 'electrical engineer', it wasn't junior or graduate, and that was once the reason why I couldn't get a pay raise (said my manager)...

Oh btw, why do I have a star next to my name? It says 'helpful member'... But all I have done was asking questions...

Thanks again all

X
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Yeah, and a fence installer from France at that... smile
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Stars are indeed for helpful posts, but the meaning of "helpful" is taken quite broadly, to include thought-provoking posts, or just interesting posts.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I'm not actually out of work yet (though statistically it will happen as I'm one of the last 2 out of a department that at one point was about 9 people including interns).  I've been looking 'seriously' since mid June when I got my US citizenship.

I'm pretty sure it's the English thing that's part of the issue because of clearances etc. but that's another matter.  However, I was trying to console you Cutiee not get sympathy.

That would "Of a fence installer".

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Don't be so hard on yourself Cutiee.  You have your degree and some experience now.  Plus the one thing you have over those of us who have been around is you could sell yourself on the "I'll be here long term" aspect.

But getting down on yourself will effect your confidence in an interview and I think that is something can really see in the interview process.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee,
The only way these people would be your competition was if you moved to Australia and started a new discipline in Civil engineering.

One of them just went for an interview with a potential employer. The person that interviewed them was someone they had trained about 15 yrs earlier. They thought they were a chance, but it turns out that the interviewer did not want the competition. So do not let someone's opinion on not wanting to hire you be a reflection of who you are.

Quote time: "Worry not what others think of you, but what you think of yourself".
 

When in doubt, just take the next small step.
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee:

I had the blissfully good fortune of graduating in 1983, when jobs were...somewhat sparse...

I applied to a major mid-stream company for a position just above minimum wage as a file clerk.  I was rejected because my grades in engineering (B-average) weren't high enough.  I concluded one of two things:

(1) They were looking for really smart file clerks;
(2) Their files were so badly messed up that they needed really smart file clerks.

I was rejected by Human Resources at a major oil and gas producer because - and I quote - "Petro-Canada just laid off 1200 people, so we want to interview them to make sure we get somebody really good.".

After three interviews and a psychological profile test, I was rejected by a major oilfield chemicals sales company during a fourth and final interview because - and I quote - "We feel that you probably don't get along well with people below your level of intelligence and that you have no sense of humour.".  To which, I politely responded - and I quote - "Some of my best friends are alcoholics and street bums; and, I *am* here with you, aren't I?".

(That might have been the point where I lost the job...)

I was rejected by a major instrumentation design and sales company because I wanted to work for them for free just to gain engineering experience, which caused them to accuse me of trying to convince them to violate local labour laws.

In all, I applied for 1,200 (one thousand two hundred) jobs over a 13 month period, and was rejected 1,199 (one thousand one hundred ninety nine) times before I got my first engineering job for - get this - $3.00 an hour.

I began to feel very much like a mere soap tablet in the urinal of the engineering profession.

Since then, I have been downsized, I have quit, I have been turfed...and I have come out ahead way better off each time.

Believe in yourself and keep going, even when things are at their most bizarre.
 

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I have not had any luck with recruiters, they seem to want very experienced people.  Always want you to relocate to some god forsaken place that you have no friends.  Then they usually inflate your resume to liar level, and then you get blindsided by the employer for the resume that you had never created in the first place.  Great people those recruiters, kind of like used car salemen and bankers.

What about contract agencies, kind of like the low skilled temporary temp agencies that get you in the door?  I worked contract agency work for like 5 years as an controls engineer.  It was usually jobs that were hard to fill or required travel.  Once you get past the 5 year mark in experience, usually you can get a job with benefits, like the one you are presently at right now.  I think in europe if you work contract you can only work 11 months there, they lay you off for a month and bring you back.  So just plan to charge a much higher rate for the gap of a month.  Take a month or two vacation and go back to same company contracting.  Or just get another contract job at some other company, you call the shots.

 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I reckon it is time to jump into some further study, even if it is some short courses in Engineering.

Just a thought. Gaining experience and knowlege builds your confidence a lot.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
THANK YOU ALL.

I have finally got an interview (next Monday)!!!  I'm very excited, yet worried at the same time. 2 months 1 interview, I really don't wanna mess up my chances...

I'm now studying about the position, the company and possible interview questions...

But one big question: How should I dress? Smart short dress (my favourite)? Or smart trousers with low cut top? Or should I try not to dress fashionable or sexy?

I must say 'THANK YOU for your help with my CV ScottyUK' :)

All suggestions are welcome! Thanks again.
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

No problem with the assist on the CV - you'd done most of it yourself really!

Re. dress: I'd go for smart but not provocative. A suit with smart shoes, bag, do your hair and makeup etc. At risk of sounding like I know what I'm talking about, that's advice from one of the girls I work with. I haven't a clue about girls' attire other than knowing what the answer to "does my ass look big in this dress?" should be. smile Being a typical guy I'd probably favour either of your suggestions, but on a first interview aim for smart, slightly conservative, but don't dress as if you're in your mid-fifties if you're in your mid-twenties. That would look almost as silly as the reverse situation!
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Good to hear Cutiee!  Best of luck to you.
Dress in what you are most confident in.  Present yourself professionally.
Do not dress "sexy".  If thats what it takes to get the position then that is what will be expected of you and how you would be perceived from then on.  Unless of course the interview is for a stripper job or something of the like.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Awesome!  Good luck.

Dress conservative, and definitely downplay sexy.  If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be serious.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Condoleeza Rice frightens the bogeyman. Don't dress like her.
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Amendment:  While downplaying "sexy" is good, you don't necessary have to wear a burka or a garbage bag.  If it's an advantageous asset, you can, and should, take some advantage of it.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Nothing low-cut, nothing shorter than just above the knee.  It shouldn't have to be this way, but sexy isn't considered professional.  It will be taken as flash over substance.

Here are some prior thread about women's professional wear:

thread731-93588: Dressing the part...
GeneratorGrrl's Dec. 14 post in thread731-110284: Important job applicant skills
thread731-111099: Professional Attire

It's been 5 years, but I don't think fashions have changed so much that the discussions have become irrelevant.

Hg

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
Haha ScottyUK, I shall not dress like her

I just found out more about this interview, this is the 1st stage interview with the director and manager... I'm scared! I have only had one interview in my life which was for my last employer, it was easy... but this one sounds all complicated and scary! Don't know what to expect.    
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Just calm down breath deep and you'll be fine.  Dress fairly conservatively, but if you are attractive then you'd be an idiot not to take advantage of it.  Men especially are visual creatures, while it may not be why you want the job, at this stage if it helps do you mind?

Taking advantage of it doesn't mean looking like a $50 tom (street walker or whatever you want to call it).  Taken too far it will mean they are only thinking about that or it may even work against you, "can't be pretty & smart" mentality.

Fashionable is probably fine as long as it's not too flamboyant but be carefull on sexy.  The slightest hint of cleavage is probably OK, much more than that will likely be inappropriate.

If you have a lower cut top you think you look cute in then wear it, just put a cammy or something underneath to hide the girls a little.

I'll stop there before it becomes too obvious just how much "What not to wear" (US Version with the hosts that actually look nicely put together) I end up watching with the Mrs.

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Smile and try to relax a little. They'll expect you to be a little nervous, but remember they're only human beings whatever title they have (unless one of them is from personnel, in which case I could be wrong) and that they are probably slightly out of their comfort zone too.

Try to be open and avoid one-word answers, but don't give hugely detailed answers to questions which don't warrant it. Involve the interviewer in your answers if you can, and don't be afraid to ask them questions as part of your answer. By doing that you are steering the interviewer to engage in conversation rather than interrogation which is usually less stressful on both the interviewer and interviewee.

Take some examples of your work if you can - photographs are great talking points and, if the opportunity arises, find a suitable opening in the interview to say "I've got some examples of my work if you'd like to have a look?". Politeness and curiousity will usually mean that they will say yes, and you will also have opened up an opportunity for you to highlight your abilities and for you to talk about something you are familiar with rather than letting them direct the path of the interview. Choose your moment carefully though and wait until you can drop it in to the conversation. If the opportunity doesn't come up then I'd probably let it go.

When the interviewer says "Have you got any more questions" it really means that they've got what they need from the interview so while it is ok to ask a question or two it is much better to have got the answers duing the interview itself.
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I would google all those websites on career interview questions that they ask and think of your answers.  Might even help to write it down.

Then think of the questions that you think they would ask technically.  Answer those.

Look smart dress you age, if you feel confident then you will act confident.  One less worry if you feel your not dresssed like you want to.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

One thing that worked for me.  At an interview for a government job where there was a panel of I think 3 people, they were asking me questions.  I finished answering one and they moved to the next, then it suddenly occured to me that I'd forgotten a really obvious answer to that question.  Toward the end of the interview when they asked if I had any questions I said something like "not a question but I have another answer for that question about X earlier, Y is the obvious solution..."

They offered me the job and offered to match my pay scale in private industry which was a bit unusual for this place.  I didn't take it as it was around the time I was looking to move to the States from the UK and things changed between interview and when I got the offer letter.

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I know the thread has moved on, but I had one more thought about interview outfit.  

I think I would advise against a dress (as opposed to a skirtsuit).  Maybe it's different where you are, but from what I've seen of women's conferencewear (which is similar to interview-wear), the only people wearing dresses rather than suits are the administrative help.  Not Looking Like The Secretary is one more thing that female engineers shouldn't have to think about but do.

Hg

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Yeah, the jacket & skirt don't have to be the same cloth.  Good point, Pat.

Figure, a boy applying for the job would have on a nice pair of slacks, and a jacket and tie, even if it's not a matching 2-piece suit.

Hg
 

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

If a guy turned up for an interview for an engineer's position in the UK and wasn't wearing a suit then nine times out of ten he would not get the job because the interviewer has mentally marked him down before even speaking to him. If I bother to wear a suit to do an interview then I expect the damned candidate to make an effort. I have been sorely tempted to do an interview with a rolled-down boilersuit tied around my waist and a site jacket over my arm but have always resisted.

Different attitudes and expectations in different parts of the world. Probably different between industries too.
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

We're business casual almost always, but we expect interviewees to dress up, even if we don't reciprocate.  It just shows that the interviewee has a level a diligence where it counts.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
Thanks all, all suggestions are noted =]

I'm trying to look elegant, not sexy, and I hate going out the house feeling unattractive... that often decrease my confidence, doubt it will help with the interview?

Looks like it's time for clothes shopping (again!)

I agree with you there, KENAT hehe.

Yes, ScottyUK, smile :) that's one thing I can't stop doing, because I have a great one =]
This new position has nothing to do with my old job; will they still be interested to see examples of my work?

Good idea Pat, but not sure about the jacket... it's surprisingly hot where I am (UK)
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
'Not looking like the Secretary is one more thing that female engineers shouldn't have to think about but do'

How does a secretary look? How should a female engineer look? I guess it's all about personal preference?
 

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

We call them Executive Assistants, over here...

EAs used to have the unwritten requirement of looking like they were clothing models.  And, in one case, Nadine (the one that got away), she was actually moonlighting as a model.

Dress will really be dictated by the company, its location, and its people.  I think you'll need to stay on the conservative side for a couple of weeks, until you get a good feel for who's who, and why they dress the way they do.  As mentioned above, we're business casual, so we have everything from t-shirt/jeans to basically interview wear, sans the jacket.  Partywear and beachwear are almost never seen.

TTFN

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Hot? In Aberdeen? Wow - global warming is for real! lol


I went to an interview for a power station engineering job with a few examples of stuff I worked on in a hybrid microelectronics plant and some photos of a wind tunnel fan drive I'd been fighting a losing battle with for months: yes, they'll be interested in your work and if it's something they aren't intimately familiar with then you can sound like an expert. smile You are really trying to convince them that you have high standards of workmanship and that you have a good understanding of the engineering principles which underpin any job. Explaining something clearly to someone who is unfamiliar with it is a great way to show that understanding.
 
  

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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I don't think it ever gets too hot for a jacket at an interview in the UK.

Now out in the desert where I live (at least at weekends) then even I struggle to force my self into a jacket when its 115F.  But still dress pants, maybe (just maybe) a short sleeved shirt and definitely tie.

Of course this is a bit perverse.  It might be very hot here outside but chances are both building and car are air conditioned, so really no excuse on the jacket, even if one only puts it on as you walk into reception.

On the other hand, in the Uk if it's hot outside then except in larger office buildings, it's probably hotter inside.

Oh well.

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

25 August now - "The" interview is apparently over.  At least, THIS particular interview is over.

A few thoughts, figuring that some other readers might add, or correct, or maybe even apply these ideas:  

1) You're full-time job - AT PRESENT - is job hunting.  Discipline your OWN self to maintain a 40-50 hour "work-week" actively looking for work AND networking.  NEVER, ever, ever, evr, be :ashamed" to ask ANYBODY you are talking to about the fact that you're looking for electrical and electrical engineering work.   For example, the cashier you're talking to maay know a cable company who needs a wiring tech for a apartment complex for three weeks.  Fine - It's in your field also.  "I ran cables in new construction for one summer.  Never want to do that again, but I learned a lot about field problems and bad connections."  

2)  Don't restrict yourself:  Allow your search to include

a) part-time (less than 40.0 hours/week) positions;
 
b) contract positions (added deliberately as short-term positions to fill an urgent need.  Last in, first out, but you often find that you're switched around in the office filling in different places for much longer than the first, original problem slot.  Also, explaining why you "left" a contract job is easy "The contract ended successfully."  

c) temporary positions   Sometimes these are even as a sub-contract agency to an out-of-city position.   Even more temporary than the "contract position" because you're expected to be there only a few weeks or months.   Good resume enhancement because you get to list many different problems that you've faced.   

If you are signed on to a temporary agency, THEY have to sell your body to a client or THEY won't get paid.   That adds a few more people trying to sell your body to the world.

3)  Be yourself.  The company you are interviewing has to sell THEM to YOU as well.  Make sure the two or three interviewers convince YOU that YOU want to work for THEM.   Don't get cocky, but they have to sell themselves - maybe 1/4 as much as you have to sell yourself to them that you will be worth your future salary.   

4)  Don't be nervous.  If I could (successfully) interview Admiral Rickover wearing cowboy boots - it's a long story - you can do anything.   

5)  Once you have them sold, DON'T sell yourself short.  Request a (slightly) higher pay than you'd expect - but research FIRST.   Your next six pay raises are much garder to get than that first step up as your starting salary.  

By the way, you don't need to be discussing dollars until AFTER you have sold them on your worth.   Once they start discussing dollar seriously - and it might be at your second or third interview, you can assume you have done the selling.   You're now the buyer, and THEY are trying to get YOU to buy their product (their business) in exchange for your time and talent.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
This interview is over! I'm so glad it's over, it was a total torture!

When I couldn't find my house key before leaving the house, I should have known that everything would go wrong on that day...

(I wore suit)

Three people interviewed me, two technical guys, and one director.  The director was very rude! He asked me a question, when I was explaining to him; instead of looking at me, he was cleaning his glasses with his tie the whole time!

When the product manager tried to explain their products to me. He was staring at the table! (Hello, are you talking to the table???)

That's only the start of the interview, and my confidence was shattered. I felt very uncomfortable and I was really nervous.

Then they asked me technical questions (i was expecting them to ask me to explain a circuit, filter, op-amp, or VHDL, but  they were asking me to design stuff to do this and that) for an hour long, I couldn't answer. I did spend days revise to cover what they mentioned in their job spec and competency based interview questions, because I was told it's a competency based interview (which is not the case).

The questions asked were totally different from job spec; I must admit some of the stuff they asked I have done in uni. But after all, I spent last two years doing totally different things. I just can't remember everything I did in uni. I feel it's really unfair, and I was angry at myself too. And the director didn't help by eating food and typing stuff (not relevant to this interview) on his computer at the meantime...

The director also asked me if I can do programming and software and admitted to me, he was looking for someone who's highly experienced in o&g industry as well as design of their products.  So I thought 'why you wanted to interview me? You saw my CV!' (and I didn't lie on my CV at all!)

The director also complained to me that he had interviewed 5  people but couldn't find a good applicant in the southwest, if he had advertised in Aberdeen, he could find better candidate... (Yeah, right, what a good way to tell me I have failed...)

I felt humiliated and embarrassed the whole time. I don't know how I remained smiling till the end; I really just wanted to walk out...

Later the company called my agency saying they thought I was 'bright individual', 'very impressed by me', 'excellent interpersonal skills', and 'the interview is worthwhile'. But it's a no (like I expected). Well, it's good for me too; I really don't want to work for a director who is rude, inconsiderate and thinks he is better than everyone else!

-----------------------------

I feel really bad about myself ever since the interview. I wish I had never gone to it... if I hadn't at least I would still have the confidence to look for jobs.

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Stay positive.  Always tell yourself: "Someone is going to win this.  Why not me?"

Stay cheerful and unflappable.  Be prepared for upsetting events at every interview.  Usually the interviewers are watching your reactions.  Be ready for upsetting occurences and be more ready to take them cheerfully.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
AND, no one is paying for my travel costs!!...

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

If during the interview, you become convinced that a job is not for you, there is nothing wrong with politely stating, that it has become apparent the job is not quite what you expected and you don't don't see any point in to continuing to waste everyones time.

It can be counterproductive to accept a job where you know you will be unhappy.

If you really are very attractive, the guys may have been diverting their gaze so as not to appear to be learing.

Regards
Pat
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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee, you need to grow a tougher skin.  You had a bad interview, get over it.  When I first moved out to the states and couldn't find Engineering Work I started applying elsewhere, being rejected from Grocery Stores and the like aint exactly a confidence booster but I needed a job so kept looking.  When I finally did get an engineering interview it ended up a bit like yours, and they'd built my hopes up by their CFO calling me on the weekend to try and get me to interview.  However, you can't give up, I did eventually get the interview for my current job which while not perfect, pays the bills.

So chin up, and keep trying.

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

For my first job I interviewed for two positions at the same company. The first was a design engineering position doing a new design for the bow of the Virginia class submarines, as far as a mechanical job goes it doesn't get better. The other was a paper jockey position, filing test forms and the like. I had the good interview first, it went very well and I got that job. When I was brought down to the second supervisor I simply told him that I have no interest in the position he was offering and that I had come down for the other position. After a quick review of my resume he agreed I would not be happy, thanked me for my honesty, blamed HR for being overpaid considering their lack of basic inteligence, took me for an awsome tour of the shop and finaly brought me to luch.

The key was being honest. Keep your chin up, your chance will come, you are just gonna have to kiss alot of frogs to find your perverbial prince.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

there are ignorant plonkers everywhere, unfortunatly some of them get to positions of power like directors of companies. Don't worry about it, its not you.  

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutiee:

Those clowns obviously don't deserve you.  You can do better than working for a bunch of arrogant twits who set you up to squirm.

I was asked during a job interview once if I knew the molecular weight of sulfuric acid.  I added the numbers up in my head but maybe missed on arithmetic or something...I was off by "2".  On that basis, I was told that I was lacking in technical competence and probably overpaid relative to my position.

A couple of years later, that interviewer applied for a job where I was working, and someone asked me what I thought about him.  On the basis of my answer, he wasn't hired, and I continued to be technically incompetent and overpaid where I was at, and where I remain to the present day.

What goes around comes around.

I still don't know the molecular weight of sulfuric acid off the top of my head, but I know where to find a periodic table when I need it.

Trust me...you didn't need to work for dopes like this.  Consider yourself lucky and move on.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Why did they ask "what is the molecular weight of sulfuric acid"? Was that directly related to you job functions?

peace
Fe

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

This reminds me of a situation similar to Snorgy and Cutiee.  I had an interview scheduled with a competitor in the industry I was working in.  The facility I was at was closing.  They took me out the night before and seemed great.  I was certain this was the dream job as well as saving me from losing my job where I was.

Got to their plant and all went well until the "main" panel interview.  One of their managers presented one of their PID and said something was missing and I asked me to identify it.  I thought he was joking and then he got mad.  Mind you same industry but different products and completely different process.  So I asked him to clarify which seemed to upset him more.  Which actually at this time amused me.  So I looked at his drawing and would make up general stuff such as you could put a filter here and purify, you could put a loading station here and dump to truck, so on.  This made him REALLY mad.  Which REALLY amused me.

So the moral Cutiee, something better will come along.  Keep your chin up learn to laugh a bit and most of all keep your confidence up.

I found a good job shortly after that interview.  Within a year that plant was shutdown as well.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

And a PID is a what?

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I think in this case it was a Process & Instrumentation Drawing.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Yea, I thought PID controller at first too, then I read a little further. Process & Instrumentation Drawing makes sense.  

peace
Fe

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Why aren't they paying your expenses?

Cheers

Greg Locock

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

I don't know if things have changed but very few places I ever interviewed in the UK paid expenses.  BAE Systems is the only one that springs to mind that did and that may only have been because if was a graduate position.

KENAT,

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RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Cutie,

I have occasionally ran into the obscure technical questions on an interview.  It's always acceptable to say something to the effect of "I don't know that off the top of my head, since my previous experience has been in a different field, but I am familiar with the concepts and could find the answer after reviewing my notes from my engineering class and confering with more knowlegable collegues.  If I was to take a stab at it I might say this..."  This shows that, although you don't know everything, you are not flustered by not knowing an answer and shows that you have the resources to get the answer.

To be quite frank, I think you dodged a bullet by not getting that job.  That job sounds Dilbertesque in the extream.  In my mind an interview should be focused on learning three things about a candidate.  Can I get along with this person?  Is this person intelligent enough to do the job (or figure out how)?  Can this person get work done (time management, motivation, non insane, etc.)?  The candidate should be looking for similar assuraces such as:  Is this company run by good people or egoistic jerks?  Will this company go out of business in the next 6 months?  Do they provide resources for me to do my job like training, a decent computer and helpful collegues?

Remeber you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you.  And just like engineering or music or sports, the more you interview, the better you get at it.  Every bad interview is just practice for the next good interview, and Tiger Woods has shanked more golf balls then I've ever hit.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)

Thanks guys!!!

The place was dull, everyone looked miserable, director was arrogant. When I first walked in the building, I just couldn't see myself working there.

I'm really annoyed with them, because they didn't even bother to read my CV, the director kept asking me, was your last job different. I was like, what the...

Anyway it's over, I must move on.

I think employers pay for travel cost, my last company paid for mine at least.

Cutie

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

Tell the director your last job was different because you didn't have ball lickers like him breathing down your backside.  

peace
Fe

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?


Cutie,  It sounds to me (and I've been on both sides of the hiring table) that someone had made up their mind that you were not going to be the one before you ever stepped foot in that place.  There are a lot of hiring managers out there that form a preconceived notion of what the ideal candidate should look like and there is not getting around it.  Better to find an open-minded manager.

It could even have been that the interviewer had a problem with the employment agency or another individual in-house who sifted through all the options and put your resume in front of them.  

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

FeX32:

I have no idea why they asked me - a "Mechanical" engineer - the molecular weight of sulfuric acid.  I suspect it was because it was the only compound for which the molecular weight was known by the interviewer.  I imagine a Chemical Engineer told him, once upon a time.

KENAT:

Yep...I have definitely been on the receiving end of bizarre interview techniques.  But, being rejected because I apparently had no sense of humour and I might not be able to speak intelligently with stupid people...that was a memorable outcome for me.  As I recall, I think I laughed and shut up.

Cutiee:

Chalk this up as one item added to a collection of memorable and funny anecdotes that you can share with your kids some day around the pool in the back yard behind the nice house that you will have bought with the money you earned by working for a good company.
 

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: I lost my first! Is this the end of the world?

(OP)
Thank you all for your helpful advice and support.  Please consider this thread closed and red flag any additional posting to this thread.

Thank you all again.

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