Formula 1 RPM's
Formula 1 RPM's
(OP)
I just caught part of a F1 race on cable over the weekend. I was astonished by the incar camera with telemetry showing the tachometer. The engine was wound out to 18K+ RPM before every shift, and even on the "slow" portions of the course, the tach never seemed to drop below 12K RPM.
How on earth do these engines hold together? I imagine they have very short stroke, but what about the valvetrain?
How on earth do these engines hold together? I imagine they have very short stroke, but what about the valvetrain?





RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Blacksmith
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Technology does change the face of racing---production based NASCAR engines @ 360 cu.in.+/- and 9000/10,000 rpm (!)---the little vintage Sprite/Mini engine that I was 'thrilled' to get7,500rpm out of in 1967 is now regularly turning 9,500 rpm . Some of my racing engines of the 60's that I was on the cutting edge with at 8,500 are now turning 10,500 to 11,000 rpm IN VINTAGE RACING!!!
Like you said, "all it takes is cubic money."
Rod
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Answer_1 = ( Torque x RPM ) / 5252
Answer_2 = ( Answer_1 /CID )
....just thought i'd stir up things ?
HP/CID Ratio is RPM dependent
Larry Meaux (meauxracing@mindspring.com)
Meaux Racing Heads - MaxRace Software
ET_Analyst for DragRacers
http://www.mindspring.com/~meauxracing/
Support Israel - Genesis 12:3
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Hp wins races, torque is as meaningless as RPM when it is alone as a factor. contrary to the public saying!!
Mark
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
-=Whittey=-
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
that they were making their Peak HP numbers between
8000 -to- 8200 RPMs .....at the same time Warren Johnson was claiming his engines were making their Peak HP
at 8700 RPMs .
Anyways this same guy who gave me this inside Info was very impressed with the Chrysler ProStock Team , and reasoned they really knew what they were doing , more than anyone else !
When the news came out about them using Nitous ,
i ran computer simulations on Foot-Distance increment times
down 1/4 mile on the Chrysler car , couldn't really tell from simulation that they were pushing or applying Nitrous button at any one point , it didn't showup in Foot-Increments ...so i reasoned they might be applying Nitrous
from the Start or some where very early a feet feet from starting line and keeping it applied down 1/4 mile
..but still no real proof ....till this same guy reveals their power/torque curves to me , i run the 1/4 mile simulation and it doesn't correlate !!
From my simulation the Chrysler ProStock team back then would have needed almost 860 Lbs of Peak Torque
and somewhere around 830 average lbs of Torque over the
RPM band to run the numbers
In R & D in Prostock State of Art engine building , you might be able to pickup 60 HorsePower over your competitor , but its going to be very hard to have 60+ lbs of Torque over your competitor or find a 60 Lbs Torque advantage .
860 Torq / 500 CID =1.72 Ratio
Today , the State of Art ProStock Technology
a 500 CID engine with 16 to 17:1 CR might be very lucky to
get 1.64 TQ/CID Ratio = 820 Lbs @ 600 RPM/SEC Accel rate
and now days , teams are making Peak HP from 8900 to 9200
or so ..... since with a given size CID engine (NA)
the most you could probably make is somewhere around 1.6
to 1.64 TQ/CID Ratio ...so to go faster you find a way to move the peak HP point higher so you get more HP/CID Ratio
and go faster
you see this same exact trend in all forms of MotorSports
this trend will usually dominate
since the amount of peak torque is pretty much locked in , you have to find a way to move this torque curve higher producing more HP/CID Ratio
Larry Meaux (meauxracing@mindspring.com)
Meaux Racing Heads - MaxRace Software
ET_Analyst for DragRacers
http://www.mindspring.com/~meauxracing/
Support Israel - Genesis 12:3
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Blacksmith
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
-=Whittey=-
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
In actuality, F1 engines use pneumatic valve closure systems to replace valve springs. The system works by having a very small pneumatic chamber above each valve. The chamber use high pressure air to close the valve after the camshaft lobe has moved beyond its peak. There is no desmodromic actuation. The reason this translates into higher engine speeds is because metallic helical springs were at their limit to maintain control of valve motion at high speeds. Now, valve motion is not the limiting factor of engines -rather, it is combustion time and crankshaft resonances, according to the rumor mills.
For more information, try the following F1 sites:
www.atlasf1.com (go to the technical forum)
www.technicalf1.com
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
If you read between the lines of my previous post you may get the idea that I know where all this is going but, you would be WRONG! Man, I sure would LIKE to know, though!
Rod
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
-=Whittey=-
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
The first two links below are for the general magazines, and the last one is a web version of an article on the Jaguar F1 engine from 2000.
http://www.ipc.co.uk/ipc-media-brands/brandprofiles/racecarengineering.html
http://www.racetechmag.com/
http://www.racetechmag.com/mse/dossier/26/f12keng.htm
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Regards,
Gunnar
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Excellent Link!. I follow F1, but not that closely - I was amazed at the things they do/have done/will do.
Blacksmith
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
WOW!!! The only 4-stroke I've ever heard of spinning that fast (22,500 rpm) was a Honda CBR250 motorcycle. To think of a F1 car engine doing it is pretty amazing!
>Evelrod:The rumor mill has it that a 'major engine mfgr' >has an engine turning 22,500 rpm on the dyno. Something >to think about---reliability ????---power ????
RE: Formula 1 RPM's
Surely when you go to those high revs, effeciency 'drops through the floor'. It seems the only reason they do this is the limit on the 3 litre capacity.
www.f1mech.com
... well worth the visit
Speedy