Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
(OP)
In our substations there is mixed nomenclature,including nameplates, over our control switches and pushbuttons. Sometimes it say "Open" and other times it says "Trip". Does anyone have a code, standard, or utility practice on a this? We haven't thought this was a big deal, but somebody questioned it so I thought I would ask it in this forum. Thanks.






RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
trip is an action initiated by a relay for any reason, could be transfer trip, breaker failure trip, overcurrent trip, ect.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
sorry for the double post..
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
I would say Trip for any operation that energizes a "Trip" coil to open a device. This would cover any electrical opening of a circuit breaker.
Breakers are tripped, switches are opened.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
jghrist beat me to it.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
"Trip" refers to a device for tripping a mechanism.
"Tripping" means to release or be released as a catch or trigger.
So when you push the "trip" button, or move the remote actuator to the "trip" position, or a relays sends a "trip" signal, they all do the same thing, rotate the "trip" bar, witch moves the "trip" latch, which releases the "trip" springs (the energy has now been released), which "Opens" the breaker.
So breakers are opened, springs are tripped. Ta Da!!!
Switches have no catches or triggers hence the absense of the term "trip" for switches.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Please decide it for us, non-English.
Our rules are very simple: what patrick7961 and Zogzog saied.
Trip is function of protection ot another system, is command.
Open command is handle operation. Open is position/indication
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
O-open?
I-insert?
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
I've seen the same confusion at several utilities, so I'm not certain if there's an industry standard (or perhaps they aren't following it). I've overheard radio conversations between service personnel and the system operators:
"Check the breaker position."
"Its tripped."
"Is there a relay target visible?"
"No. The handle was placed in the 'open' position."
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Regards,
Matt
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Manually tripping a breaker is functionally (electrically) same as manually opening a breaker. That is the intent was to open a breaker after all. Also "Open" goes well with the label for the opposite action of closing the breaker as "Close". I personally prefer labeling the remote breaker control switch positions as "Open"/"Close". It is very common to write in switching procedures as "Close the breaker or Open the breaker".
Trip is generally associated with automatic tripping of the breaker on a fault by relay or a trip unit. I do not recall seeing "Trip" as the switch control label in the USA, that does not mean that it does not exist.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
IMO this is because your are tripping the springs, the springs open the breaker, as I posted earlier.
I did some real research on my ealier post, I think it is correct.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
that also reminds me, the push button that are labeled as "trip" or "Push to trip" such as one that you posted the picture of, are intended to be used during a test or some kind of emergency conditions. Even the PB intended for "normal" opening functions are still labeled Open. For example all PBs on the LV power CBs.
On MCCB's the almost hidden "Trip" push button are included to simulate a "trip" condition and breakers "tripped" using that requires a "reset" before closing.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Standard nameplates for Series 24 breaker control switches say "Trip".
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Refer to page 7 (midway on right) of your link. It lists the labels one can have. Both Open-Close and Trip-Close are available. There is no so called "standard". I have used and specified a lot of these switches. Mfrs. will provide what is specified. (if specified).
I personally associate Trip action with something that would require a reset to reclose.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
"Theory is when you know all and nothing works. Practice is when all works and nobody knows why. In this case we have put together theory and practice: nothing works... and nobody knows why! (Albert Einstein)
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Oh now you've gone and done it! Try getting the lid back on that can or worms.
I've sat in on far too many safety meetings where the operators and other personnel argue the meanings of red vs green and open vs closed when they have to deal with both valves (fluid/steam flow) and electrical system status.
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Most of those say trip too.
K-Line
DS
AK
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
I am not saying they do not exist. All I am saying that there is no real "standard". What you posted is probably an old breaker and is less common. (It even has a very odd Push to close button!). Most new ones in fact says "ON" or "OFF" with symbols of "I" and "O".
By the way, I do agree that"I" is meant for numeral "1" and "O" for "0".
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
Trip/Open - Lights go out
Close - Lights come back on
Alan
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature
RE: Substation Trip versus Open nomenclature