Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
(OP)
I have scoured all of the P&ID legends I could find in-house and on the net and couldn't find a match for the attached symbol. It was received from a certain French steam turbine manufacturer and is located between the condenser hotwell and condensate pump suction isolation valve. My logical guess is that it is some sort of suction strainer, however, I would have located it between the pump isolation valves instead of upstream if that was the case.
Thanks!
Thanks!





RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
JB
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
It would be considered premature to assume that an Expansion Joint (EJ) is required at the P&ID stage and it is not normal to include an EJ on a P&ID.
Ask the turbine vendor to verify that it is an EJ.
Then,
Ask them why they think one is required?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
look at this and other similar pages:
http://www.cadtoolsonline.com/rubberexp.html
Just add tie rods to these?
JB
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
Johnny Pellin
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
I agree with JJPellin and JohnGP – Further a few things to consider.
Often bellows do appear on P&ID's as they do effect the flow in the pipe.
P&ID's are also often used for a (bulk) material take off, in that case all in line items are shown with their specific details. (This number 2110ZD could refer to that. Likely "ZD" stands for this thing in French, like EJ stands for "Expansion Joint" in English.)
Perhaps it is not a P&ID, some schemes look like a P&ID's but they are just a schematic mechanical view (often used by vendors to show the working)
A bellow is not always an expansion joint, it is also used to avoid vibrations going from one system into another.
Thomas
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
So, to allow a isolation valve lineup/lock-out/tag-out to be written, the P&ID HAS to include all possible parts that might need to be isolated. (Otherwise, you're left rying to figure out "how/where/when do I isolate and drain and remove this thing - when I can't even see where it is on the P&ID?"
You will often see flanged joints on P&ID's for same reason: Where can I break the pipe? When I need to break the pipe, what do I have to isolate?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
This is an additional feature to an expansion joint between LP Turbine Outer casing and Condenser neck, due to Steam Bypass nozzles directly feeding the condenser
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
I have seen a 'inserted' valve that if it had a special PID symbol that would be it. It uses an oval hole in the pipe into which the gate slides into. The valve body is bolted around the pipe, then the oval is cut, cutter extracted and gate inserted, all done live.
I would think expansion joints would be the squiggly bellows like on the PID.
Hydrae
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
One additional note: This could be a drawing error but the third (and last) parallel pump does not show this symbol in line. Each pump takes suction from a common header. Still waiting to hear the official answer back from the vendor...
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
I also agree that it's the norm to show them on the P&ID's. We would categorize it as a "specialty item", as we would with spring supports, out of spec valves, strainers, etc.
Typically, if something is an "inline" specialty item, it shows on the P&ID as it's position relative to equipment, block valves, vents/drains and such needs to be known. Specialty items like spring supports would typically not be shown on a P&ID.
Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas
"All the world is a Spring"
All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
It could also be useful during installation, because it gives the installer some tolerances during hook-up, especially since, in most cases, the Condensate Pump is of the vertical type, and relocating it is NEVER an option in case mismatches occur.
So it could be possible that the symbol resembles a tied expansion joint.
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?
RE: Does anyone recognize this P&ID Symbol?