online masters for chemical engineers
online masters for chemical engineers
(OP)
I am located in the northeast and am on the fence with grad school. The local schools I could attend would be like Villanova, Drexel, University of Delaware, or Rowan.
I have also been looking for online programs and have found USC, Columbia, Lehigh, and Stanford.
What is the general outlook on advanced degrees. It seems like the poor job market is going to keep new grads in school for more advanced degrees.
Would it be better to pick an online big name school that will look weird on my resume or just do a local masters program?
I have also been looking for online programs and have found USC, Columbia, Lehigh, and Stanford.
What is the general outlook on advanced degrees. It seems like the poor job market is going to keep new grads in school for more advanced degrees.
Would it be better to pick an online big name school that will look weird on my resume or just do a local masters program?





RE: online masters for chemical engineers
You miss the core so to speak of being in a lab building/performing/analyzing your own experiments ect.
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
From what I found, Kansas State, MIT, and Auburn all offer 100% on-line non thesis Master of Chemical Engineering Degrees.
Of those, I thought Auburn was the best because I am in the south and it has a very good reputation here. Also, it was the most affordable and they give you up to 5 years to finish. That works out to once class a session, 3 sessions a year.
When I talked to engineers in my firm, they all told me that having MIT on my degree was not worth the extra money I would have to pay for the degree. In their opinion, what is worth more money is experience not what school you went to. Basically, I wouldn't make more money with an MIT vs an Auburn degree.
Just one more thing. I would not disclose on my resume that I got my masters online. I would just put what school I went to and when I finished. If asked I would, but it seems like the people who are doing the hiring seem to have a sense that online learning isn't learning. I think that will change eventually as baby boomers retire.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
But that's just my opinion.
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
I looked in to Auburn's program. The classes are the same. You are responsible for watching the videos of the lectures. Homework is the same, except it gets emailed in. Exams are the same (You have to find someone in your area to proctor). You have finals just like everyone else. At the end of your studies you have to report for a two hour written exam and a two hour verbal exam before you get your degree.
I think that the idea that online degrees are worthless, regardless of what the program is like, only serves to discourage people from furthering their education. I would love to take years off of work and just study but the reality is, that it is a move that will do more damage to my career than it will help.
One more thought, I work with two engineers who both have their masters at a "real" school and I can run circles around them.
My point is, your education is what you make of it. You can slack your way through an online degree and you can slack your way through a regular degree. Or you can put just as much effort into an online degree as you do into a traditional one.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Aside from access to lab equipment (and there are ways around that like summer schools) what is the process of teaching / learning ?
1) Background reading list provided prior to course depending on your qualifications - requires the student to have the motivation to do this regardless of whether they are full time attendance or not
2) lectures where someone directs your learning via Q&A sessions / problem setting and feedback - this can be achieved by a variety of means
3) practical sessions to develop understanding of theory
4) seminars / sessions with other students to talk around the subject
5) exams and/or thesis
Each of these can be carried out by full time attendance or via distance learning although the distance learning is a more difficult option as it's reliant on lecturers giving timely feedback to questions / problem sets.
Lab time is difficult to sequence in distance learning although not impossible. Does this make distance learning a poor way to do things? Probably not and some subjects easier to this with than others.
The UK has had the Open University since the 70s and many of the degrees are well regarded - they now offer masters courses in several areas. There is a WORLD of difference between a properly organised distance learning course and a website where you pay your $50 or £50 and get a bogus certificate.
If somebody came to me with a masters from a distance learning program which they have balanced with a normal working day i think that shows a strength of character / requires additional motivation to stick through it and an ability to be self sufficent.
ggordil's last point that it depends on the person hits the nail on the head. it's the person you would be hiring not the qualification
regards, HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Just my opinion,
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Responses to a few of your points:
1) A thesis would be difficult to undertake if you are not in the Lab everyday.
"Lab experience" is important, but many people working on off campus degrees spend their day job working in a lab. I know that there are few univeristies I could go to that have better facilities then the lab I work in. And I know of a few distance program that coordinate with your employer so that you can work on a thesis related to your work. This to me seems even superior to a typical on comapus thesis as the comapny can often devote more resources that a grad student will receive.
2) If your thesis has no experimental or physical attributes then we can categorize this as philosophy and not engineering
What about someone working on modeling, simulation, or other computational engineering? There are a lot of very good engineers and scientists that only need a powerful computer to do their work. It's absurd to say this isn't engineering.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
no point trying.....
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
I graduated with a BS in mechanical engineering from Kansas State in 2006 and would like to share my experience with distance learning.
Almost all of my classes were in person with one exception. I took a 700 level intermediate fluid dynamics class which being for graduate credit also was taught online. This meant that the instructor posted a video lecture a couple times a week which had a PDF next to the video of the instructor that he could annotate while speaking (a white board). I had the same instructor for Thermo II and he is a good instructor, but take a moderatly interesting lecturer in person and watch a video of him without an audience to interact and he becomes painfully boring. I had to stand at my computer to get through the lectures without falling asleep. I didn't care for the Nunn book either, but that's a different issue. This was the worst class I had at K-State. Even with a one hour recitation in person with the instructor every week I felt cheated.
At the same time I regularly visit MIT's Open Course Ware website at ocw.mit.edu. I purchased the Linear algebra book by Gilber Strang that is used with his set of video lectures. He's a dynamic speaker and with the ability to watch him interact with the class it is a pleasure to watch. It's not perfect. The Chemistry lectures suffer from a lot of information being presented on power point presentations that are not visible on the video lecture. I don't know if there graduate degree lectures are presented the same way. I expect they are not just because of the cost involved in having multiple cameras for one class. I'm also a big fan of the lectures presented by The Teaching Company for non technical subjects such as history and philosophy. Simply put prerecorded lectures can be effective.
With that background I would like to say that an Online masters degree is o.k. I do think being in class with an instructor and group of students that you can work with is more optimal, but I don't think it essential. I might not say the same for an undergraduate degree, but the candiates going for a masters degree are older, more mature and more focused, not to mention more likely to have additional responsiblites such as a job and a family. I also know that the quality of an online course is going to be based on the instructor and the system used for lectures.
A lot of universities are heading this way just because of the economic requirements to compete. Once an online system is in place the incremental cost of another student is much less then the cost of tuition. The non-thesis masters degree is also becomeing much more popular, though I don't feel qualified to comment on the merits of thesis vs. non-thesis degrees.
I would still recommend K-state even with my bad experience. I knew quite a few instructors in the Chemical Engineering department and the school has a good reputation. I feel my experience was out of the ordinary and had multiple causes, some my own. And with a few more years of Online experience I think the quality of this type of instruction to increase. I plan on getting my MS some day as well and though I want the on campus experience I may opt for an online degree.
Sorry for the book,
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
-Kirby
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
The distance learning graduate program is non-thesis but you do have the option of a master's report, which is a detailed evaluation/writing project which is on the order of a thesis in length, just without the independent experimentation. If you are not going on to a doctoral program, or working in a job that requires experimentation, I believe the experimentation/thesis is a waste of time when you can be learning other more useful information. I had exactly the same homework as the students "on-campus". I took exactly the same exams and I had to meet before my master's committee to discuss my final report and they had the option to ask me questions about anything I was supposed to have learned over the course of my studies, which they did.
I think, perhaps wrongly, that when you say the words "online degree", most people think of the non-accredited, non-brick and morter schools that offer online degrees in any area you can think of (no names offered but we all can name a few). The truth is there are many reputable universities that now offer degrees through distance learning means (online, dvd, etc.). These are very beneficial for people who want to further their education but cannot take a year or two off to go to school part time, usually far away from where they live. I agree that you do not get the laboratory experience through distance learning, but there are many programs that do not require laboratory work and many, many more careers where you will not step foot in a laboratory. I would much rather have an extra class or two in advanced fluids or thermodynamics (which I might use) than to have spent a semester wasting time on developing a hypothesis and testing that hypothesis with experiments, simply because I will never use that knowledge/information. Certainly, if I were going on to get a doctorate or work in a national lab or something, the experimentation and thesis would be very beneficial (but then I probably wouldn't have been considering a distance learning degree in the first place).
So bottom line is, those who say it's not the same thing or that one thing is more reputable than the other either don't understand or haven't experienced distance learning. At the MS level, you can learn just as much, or more, than being on campus. You also learn discipline and self-study techniques because you are responsible for making sure you learn the materials to complete the homework and exams. I think the experience has helped me immensely in my career.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
I think you make a few very good points. Particularly:
"The nice thing about watching a recorded lecture was that I could re-watch portions I didn't understand or needed a little more reinforcement."
I think this would actually be a very valuable resource (recordings of all lectures available) even if you were taking a class on campus.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
Otherwise its a waste of time.
Fe
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
You are right that a lot of my frustration was from being in a 700 level course. I tried to highlight that in my post so that people understood some of my complaints. When did you get your MS from K-state. We may have been in that online class together. It was Intermediate Fluid Mechanics (I think I said dynamics above) MNE 720. I think I took it in the fall of '05 and graduated in the spring of '06.
Kirby Wilkerson
Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.
RE: online masters for chemical engineers
I finished up my classes in fall '04, but didn't officially "graduate" until spring '05 due to having my Master's report completed and signed off by my committee. I didn't take 720, my concentration was more on thermodynamics and I took a few management-type classes from the IMSE department.