Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
(OP)
We have completed all the required test on our Autoclave per the Boeing requirements. We have manufactured contless test panels for metal peel test, honeycomb peel test, lap sheer test, ect. We are required to perform what is call an Embedment test in accordance with BMS8-30. This is an obsolete spec. BMS8-30 was replaced by BMS5-90. Both the BMS8-30 and the new BMS5-90 were the specs. on application and tests for applying and using Foam Adhesives. However, the new BMS5-90 does not state anything about an Embdement test. We are unable to obtain the old spec BMS8-30 becuase it has been cancelled and Boeing is not very helpful nor do we want to ask them to many questions, they might think we don't know what we are doing. But after 20 years in airframe structural repairs/overhauls and manufactuing composite type panels we have never heard of this type of test. Does any one have any information regarding an Embedment test or the old Boeing spec BMS8-30??? Here is what we are required to do:
Accomplish the embedment strength test at 80° F +/- 10° F called out in BMS 8-30 (it is known that this is an obsolete specification) , except use BMS 5-90, type IV per BAC 5514-590 cured at 250° F in lieu of BMS 8-30, type I adhesive and the minimum embedment strength is 1312 pounds for the BMS 5-90 adhesive. After the test the samples are to be cut in half and checked for voids to ensure they meet the requirements in BMS 5-90.
Accomplish the embedment strength test at 80° F +/- 10° F called out in BMS 8-30 (it is known that this is an obsolete specification) , except use BMS 5-90, type IV per BAC 5514-590 cured at 250° F in lieu of BMS 8-30, type I adhesive and the minimum embedment strength is 1312 pounds for the BMS 5-90 adhesive. After the test the samples are to be cut in half and checked for voids to ensure they meet the requirements in BMS 5-90.





RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
I'd think that you'd be showing how your processes meet the BAC5514-590 requirements for core splicing.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
My company deals with Boeing a lot. They have so many specs sometimes obsolete references aren't deleted when they should be. You should point out to them or whoever is contracting you this test is not referenced or detailed in any superseding spec you can find and see what they say. Since it is only listed in obsolete docs it sounds like the test is also obsolete.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
Just a warning: I'm not sure how much you've dealt with Boeing, but don't be surprised when the BAC5514 qual doesn't cover you for making all honeycomb or metal bonding parts for Boeing. Boeing Commercial and Boeing Military like to have their own separate qual docs and they rarely cross each other. So far we've done 4 separate quals just for making laminate and honeycomb parts for 1 model aircraft, and 2 other quals for 2 other aircraft's parts. It would be nice if they had just 1 qual doc.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
I ask because this may be a hurdle which I may have to eventually overcome.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
materialsliz - YES, BMS does show a sketch or dwg of the test fixture, however it is crude and does not have full detials. if it did, we would produce it ourselves. Do you know any companies that you have sent test panels to that could help us??
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
The only thing I can tell you is to ask Boeing for their design of the fixture, stating you want to make sure you fab it the same way they did so the test results can be compared correctly. They must have some design otherwise how would they be able to compare different company's qual data?
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
I'd innocently ask Boeing why you need to accomplish a test to an obsolete spec...
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
I have the design of the fixture: Please review the attachment.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
What problems are you having with this sketch?
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
On the other hand the top of the box shows a ball Dia. which means that there could be some type of force applied at the top and naturally applying force at the bottom. The reason I point this out is becuase after the test is complete, we are required to cut the sample in half and check for any voids I/A/W BMS5-90, the Faoming Adhesive Application.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
2) is the core material specified? because the result will be a function of the core as much as the adhesive. If the core material is not specified, then you need to ask Boeing what to use.
3) my interpretation is this: the lower vertical tab is bonded to the core block; this is what is tested. The rest of the items in the figure are the fixture. The upper tab is attached to the ball, and it appears the top plate should have a concave hemispherical "cup". This allows the upper tab to rotate relative to the box, providing alignment during loading. The upper and lower tabs are gripped in standard test machine grips, and loaded in tension. The test specimen (bonded tab and core) is slid into the fixture.
4) I don't see any "skin" in the figure
5) my guess is that the lower tab that is bonded to the core is aluminum, as the thickness is 0.064", as common aluminum sheet thickness. This should be specified in the BMS spec.
6) I would weld a back plate to the fixture box to stiffen it.
I'm not in the office for the next couple of weeks, so am not reachable by phone. Post any questions here and I'll try to reply when I'm at a computer.
Regards,
Steve W.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
BF109g-to answer your question more thoroughly, what I've seen is this: Boeing's part dwg will call out "make per BAC####". BAC#### states "supplier facilities must be qualified to D6-#####". In the D6 doc it says what your autoclave/oven has to meet (another D6 doc), what your layup room reqs have to be, if your laser ply locators or CNC cutting machines have to be qualified (another D6 doc), etc. along with what types of qual panels and tests to perform, and what materials to use. So far all of our quals have followed this path.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
Yep, layer on layer of reference specs. I've been down that road on metal parts.
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
As always with best regards,
Dondi
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft
RE: Becoming an Approved Boeing Bonding Facility for all Aircraft