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My intern now makes more than me?!?
7

My intern now makes more than me?!?

My intern now makes more than me?!?

(OP)
The company I work for started a Civil/Survey department in August 2008. I began working here in September as a Civil EIT. I now have worked 2 and half years as an EIT. It was just me and my boss in the department until he hired an "intern" in January. The intern is going to school for his Bachelor's in Civil but he also has about 20 years of survey experience. To make a long story short, the intern threatened to quit for a number of reasons. Well my boss had a meeting with the owner of the company, and they decided to give him a $10 AN HOUR RAISE!! Of course I didn't hear this from the boss, but I heard it from the intern since me and him are pretty close and are the only two people working for my boss. So I am sitting here with a degree and am quite knowledgeable in AutoCAD and now my intern makes $2 per hour more than me. Everyone I know says that I should have a discussion with my boss about this. What should I do?  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

he also has 20 years of experience surveying.  i understand that he's in school to be an engineer.....but a lot of techs do make more than engineers especially when they're so experienced.  i had a PE, and MS, a BS and a whatever other letters after my name, and i'm still pretty sure i was making less than our head draftsman who had 30-40 years of experience, but nary a degree to his name.  and he deserved it.   

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

So you have a little over two years experience as an EIT and you are disappointed because you are not earning as much as a guy with over twenty years of experience.  How many years of relevant work experience do you have; 2.5 years?  I believe that you overestimate the value of a degree and underestimate the value that comes with a significant amount of work experience.  Stop comparing your salary to what your more skilled coworker earns and compare it with what most EITs are being paid.  If you are underpaid in comparison with EITs in your field and in your geographic area, talk to your boss; but be prepared to find another job if you do not like the outcome of the dialog.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

(OP)
I understand that he has a lot of survey experience. I just question the whole situation because a $10 an hour raise is a lot of money. And my intern told me that when they offered him the job that they had to do some serious thinking about giving him his previous hourly wage. It seems that they should have started him out at a higher wage maybe.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

You need to get copies of whatever pictures the intern has.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

I have to agree with Zapstar that you should be comparing your salary to "your" situation and not his.  Your degree only holds relevance for about five years and then after that it will come down to experience.  Once you have it, companies will pay for it accordingly.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Am I missing something?  How does 20 years of surveying experience translate into CE dollars?  I could see 20 years of surveying translating into surveying dollars - maybe he worked as a surveyor for a long time and is just not going to school to get a degree for it.  That doesn't seem to be the case, though.  

There is a reason that they license surveyor and engineers separately, that's because they don't do the same job.  

The intern is essentially that, an intern.  He wouldn't be an intern at a surveying company, but he is working at a CE company.  

What am I missing?

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

it's a civil/surveying company from what i gather.   

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

(OP)
StructuralEIT-you pretty much hit it right on. He has done surveying for a long time and now wants to become an RPLS, so he is now going to school just to get a degree. My boss is an RPLS so my intern works under him and they do most of the survey work that we do here the company. And then my intern will draw up the surveys and have me help him. He is actually pretty much just strictly doing survey work and not really helping with any of the CE work. This kind of brings up another thought I am having. It seems that maybe my boss is focused on the surveying part of the department and throwing the civil part to the side.  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

How much engineering is it really?  It sounds like he's doing the surveying along with the boss.  With just your boss and you, how much capacity do you really have for engineering work?

Whatever the work actually is, a degree, 2.5 years' experience, and "quite knowledgeable in AutoCAD" is not equal to 20 years' experience.  They may certainly be different, but they are not equal.  You may be surprised how much "engineering" some surveyors know.

Lastly, is he really "your" intern?


 

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"Lastly, is he really "your" intern?"

that's something i was thinking as well......

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

A thought I had as I read these posts, it appears you may be destined to becoming his (your intern) intern.  Have you picked up on the same thing?

Good luck,
Latexman

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

You could talk to your boss - but both of you might get fired for revealing/talking about wages..

Or at least put you on a bad light....

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"How does 20 years of surveying experience translate into CE dollars?"  

I don't think they are paying for CE experience, but for the transferable skills that he brings to the table.  A person with 20 years of experience would not get the same pay as a 20 year old just coming into this field.  Did you honestly think that a person with this much experience (I guess coming into this small business) would get the same pay as a Jr Engineer or intern that is 20 years younger than he is?  Plus this person might have contacts in the field that may be beneficial to the company and it is these things that the company is paying.
 

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

He probably doesnt get vacation or insurance since he works there part time.  So you are still ahead.

Never, but never question engineer's judgement

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"My intern"?

I've worked with juniors who became seniors.  They earned and deserved  it.

Sounds like snobbery to me.

- Steve

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Hmmm. I've got about 3 years of experience, and I'd definitely expect to be paid less than a drafter with 20 years of experience. In fact, I am currently, and I'm learning a lot from him.

Maybe you should worry less about how much he makes, and do your job. Then you'll get that $2 raise in no time!

Then you'll be on par with him. That's what you want, isn't it?

V

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

In today's market, just be glad you have a steady job.  Many of us are not so fortunate.  Talk money AFTER the economy imoroves and the availability of other engineers to fill your position dwindles.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

3
Are you keeping score?  Does his salary affect your ability to meet your financial obligations?  Were you upset about your salary prior to finding out about his raise?

If the answer to those questions is "no" then get the hell over it.  The less you focus on what someone else in the office is making the more energy you'll have to do your own job.  

I've been doing engineering for 30 years.  I've been doing CAD for 20.  I've never equated one with the other.  Not a single time.  AutoCAD is one of the suite of tools I use to communicate the results of my Engineering Analysis, but it is no more important than my expertise in flow-modeling, Microsoft Access, or MathCad--they're all just tools, you might as well say "I'm a dab-hand with a screwdriver".  Saying "I'm quite knowledgeable in CAD" as an engineering qualification is a clear indication that your skills are about at the level of a 2-year draftsman and if a 2-year draftsman is making $2/hour less than a 20-year surveyor then you are seriously overpaid.

Personally, if I were you I would keep my mouth shut, my head down, and try to develop some skills beyond AutoCAD.

David

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

vc66-
I agree with your statement.  Let's say that same drafter with the same 20 yrs of experience decided to become an engineer.  He talked to your boss and he now became an EIT at your firm.  He is no longer a draftsman, and while that experience may benefit it doesn't translate directly.  Would you still feel the same with the above scenario?

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

I agree with the others, this is starting to sound like sour grapes.
While the 20 years of experience may not translate directly, it is still valuable, closely related experience and should be considered as such.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Asking for more money, usually does not lead to satisfactory results anyway. Best way to get paid more is to find another job that would pay you what you think you should get paid. Look for other job, while you still working and see if someone else will pay you what you are looking for!

 

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

ttuterry, if you are an EIT and your boss is a RLPS, and if the department is just you, "your intern," and your boss; it seems to me that you may not be training under the supervision of another PE.  This will not help you much when you want to apply to take the PE test.  You may want to think about getting out of this small survey department and get into an engineering department before your intern becomes your boss.  There's obviously a very strong connection between your surveyor boss and his older, experienced surveyor/intern (supervisor-in-training).  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

To the OP: Your mind will really be blown once you start reporting to "your intern". That is the writing on the wall that I (and others on here) see anyway. Good thing you two are on good terms. Your self evaluation of your skills does not measure against someone with 20 years experience.  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"In today's market, just be glad you have a steady job.  Many of us are not so fortunate.  Talk money AFTER the economy imoroves and the availability of other engineers to fill your position dwindles."

Ding! We've got a winner here!

Seriously... Listen to these others. They've said everything already.

David

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Lots of people make more than me that probably shouldn't.  But good for them for getting every dime they can because it doesn't affect me in anyway shape or form.  I am overpaid for the amount of work I do - I'm paid higher than people in my clasification (salary surveys for engineers) and I have a nice steady, reliable, fulfilling job.

I say take it as a tidbit of information that obviously the company will pay the right people enough money... then figure out how you can make yourself the right person.  Being proactive is the first step on the 7 habits of highly effective people.  I never saw complaining or jealousy on Covey's list.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"obviously the company will pay the right people enough money"

That could well be the case in Utopia.
Unfortunately I don't live there.

Being proactive on the salary front is the way to get ahead financially, it just doesn't suit everyones' personality.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"obviously the company will pay the right people enough money" assuming they stay in business long enough to figure it out.  People make mistakes all the time, particularly in an unfamiliar situation.
 

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"obviously the company will pay the right people enough money"
I do believe that this is true in the bigger companies, because they have HR with their formulas and such for calculating how much to pay compensation.  In a smaller companies where maybe the owner is making the desicions, I can see the "old boys club" being the golden rule (those who has the gold rules.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Twoballcane, those big HR formulas are still written by fallible human beings and use data from fallible human to generate the results.  Like it or not, pay raises, like lay-offs and similar decisions usually have an element of the 'popularity contest'.  The exception I can think of are Union contracts where it's all based on length of service rather than performance, which is as bad, or in cases where the popularity contest aspect is minimized, worse.

There was a thread somewhere about comparing pay, or being open about pay, may be worth the OP's time to find it and take a look.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Kenat, I do agree with you, however, I think at smaller companies it is more prevelant that the company (the owener) to give a salary due to emotion than some rational methode such as a large company.   

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Ever worked in a large company?  The company puts on caps and the individual you work for distributes the money within the cap.  At then end of the day you don't work for Acme Megastuff, you work for Bobby, and Bobby has as much say as most business owners--and all my years with big companies have never borne out the idea that salary (mis)treatment will ever be anything but emotional.

David

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Even if the the money isn't distributed quite like that, normally there's some kind of performance revue involved and if they don't like you, or at least if they like others more, you wont get the higher marks.  Even if they try and make it objective, personality will get in the way.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

In my experience large companies are more tied in the fact that any job will put you in a band so if you are a C1 you will earn between X and Y and it matters very little how good or bad you are.

Small companies tend to pay the most money to those who perform the best they are less rigid in their approach.

Some people prefer the more structured side of the larger company and some prefer the get it done approach of a smaller one. It is always easier to think someone earns more than you because they are a friend of the boss rather than they do a better job than you.
 

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

Large companies are strange beasts.  I have known some seriously talented high fliers in big companies that have soared upwards, but never appeared on any engineering org chart.  It's almost like there's an infinite number of grades.

The company I work for used to have clearly defined grades and salary bands associated with them.  That's gone now ... there was a "management speak" reason for it, but questioning it leads to words like "head" and "parapet".

- Steve

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

You're right about the pay bands ajack, however there's sometimes some management input into where in that pay band you are or if you can jump to the next one.

This is where the popularity contest comes in.

I've done better in small companies, not 'cause my boss doesn't like me at my current medium (but want to be big) place but because he has so little input into what my raise would be.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

When I hear about similiar situations, I usually look at what I make versus what is "competitive" for my situation. Then I look at what's available. The fact that some salary survey says peole with my title/experience etc says I should be making 10% more is only worthwhile if I am able to negotiate for that or find another employer that will pay it.

Generally, when I see people that I think are "overpaid", I figure they will be the first to go when layoffs or re-structuring occurs. Typically, this situation arises more frequently in companies that are "overpaying" specific individuals.

It sounds like perhaps you boss has become buddies with the intern on a more personal level. If the boss is steering the direction of his personal interest (i.e. surveying) and not where the opportunities are, maybe it will come back to bite him. If it comes up and your current boss is gone, chances are the "intern" will follow shortly if he is being "overpaid". If your boss is the owner, then hopefully he is going in the right direction, or everybody might be out of a job. If he is the owner, and is steering the company towards surveying and there isn't enough actual engineering to keep you happy, then that is a matter of how you fit within the company. How well you are compensated will obviously suffer if your skills don't match what the company does. And what the company does is up to the owner.

-- MechEng2005

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

I think you need a few more letters after your name.  It cant be the 20 years of practical experience that makes him a money maker for the company.  

Always, always, compare yourself against you.  Then you will only be disappointed in what you are making when it is real.  If you think you deserve a raise then ask for one, but never because the other guy makes "x"  That becomes a futile process.  There will always be those that make more and less.  You only should be concerned about what you need, want, think you are worth.

Russell, ABC's

Russell White, P.E.
Automation Technologies, Inc.
www.AutomationNC.com

Automation Help
www.PLCMentor.com

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

I sympathise with the OP.  I don't care how much experience the guy has, an "intern" should NOT make more than an engineer.  Isn't an intern supposed to be cheap, inexperienced labor?  This guy got a $10/hr raise?  Granted it was the mid 90's, but I only made $10/hr when I was an intern.

As others suggested, it sounds like there is more to it than meets the eye, and I would not be surprised if the intern ends up becoming your boss.   

Personally I would leave and find another job.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

"an "intern" should NOT make more than an engineer."

Maybe but the OP is not a time served engineer (or whatever you want to call it) , he is a trainee as well, an EiT.

So, should one trainee be paid more than another? Should a trainee with more experience and who possibly does billable work be paid more than one 2.5 years out of uni?

I don't think it is as clearcut as you suggest.


 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: My intern now makes more than me?!?

I agree that an intern 'should' not make more than an engineer; but the bottom line is who is bringing in the profitable solutions?

If you've got the talent to satisfy customers, that should be on your resume, and the boss should know it.
    

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