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Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

(OP)
Good morning All,
 
I have a situation where field doesn't like to work with 600V 4/0, 19 strand XLPE since it's pretty stiff and terminating it in an AC panel is quite a hassel.

The purpose of this cable is to provide 200A 120/240 single phase service. The AC panel is located about 200 ft from the padmount XFMR.

Could you all advise if there are any better alternatives around?
 

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

If it is aluminum, you could substitute a smaller copper conductor.
 

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

Use multiple runs of a smaller cable?  Use 3 single core cables instead of one 3-core cable?

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

(OP)
Are there any soft stranded copper cables available that you can think of?

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

Why are you using 4/0?  Is it aluminum?  Is it in an environment with high ambient temperature?  2/0 is good for 200 Amps.  If you are planning on expanding this line later or it is in harsh conditions somewhere, use 3/0 copper.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it.  If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

3/0 will yeild 2% voltage drop at 240 volts in your 200 foot run.  This should be permissible.  2/0 will be about 3%.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it.  If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

(OP)
TurbineGen,

Please see my note above. As I stated the source is located about 200 ft from the AC panel and I need to account for 2% voltage drop in the feeder circuit.

I appreciate the comments. Please keep them coming

jghrist,

Thanks for reminding me that I forgot to mention the type of conductor. It is Copper

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

Two 1/0 cables are equivalent to 1 4/0 cable.  You could also use three #2 wires with a slightly higher voltage drop.  Either of these should be ok for your application.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it.  If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

#4/0 AL is NEC standard for 200 A residential service.  Or #2/0 copper.  Is this in conduit or direct-buried or....?  

You could look at something besides XLPE - XHHW or some other synthetic rubber based insulation might be more flexible.  

Maybe you just need to find some new electricians.  Lots of them looking for work these days.

"The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless." -- Steven Weinberg

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

If money is not tight, you could look at DLO/RHW.  This is a very fine stranded flexible conductor.  DLO is for Diesel Locomotive Cable.  If it does not have the dual rating of RHW or one of the other insulations in Table 310.13 of the NEC, you cannot use it for NEC applications.  It will also require terminations suitable for the fine strands.  

4/0 is not that stiff of a cable to work with and unless it is very cold should not be that big of an issue for an electrician.   

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

(OP)
dpc,
It will be burried in 2" conduit. I believe their problem is more with the stiffness of the strands than the insulation type. I think they are after fine strands/braids.

reqqcapt19,
Do you know what's the price difference? Unfortunately, I can't say that price is not a concern.

 

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

zazmat,
  I haven't purchased any DLO in a long time.  As I recall it was 30% to 40% more expensive than standard wire and that does not include the purchase of terminations that are suitable for use with the very fine stranded conductor.  It also has a larger OD than standard conductors so conduit fill may be an issue.  If you do use it in conduit make sure the installers use plently of wire pulling lube.  As long as you cover all of the insulation with lube it pulls fine, but if you have a "dry spot" it really drags.  
  I was using it both for its flexibility and the insulation voltage rating.  DLO is rated for at least 1000 volts and I was hooking up large DC motors with a 700 volt armature voltage.  The flexibility was required because there was no way that 16 500kcmil standard conductors would fit in the motor junciton box.

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

Seriously, #4/0 AL is universally used for these service entrances, at least in the US.  You could go with large conduit if the gripe is about pulling the cable.   

"The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless." -- Steven Weinberg

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

I believe he is struggling with 4/0 copper, correct?  If agree with dpc that there should be no problem working with it.  4/0 is stiff, but is is also a standar cable thickness that many electricians work with.  You can use 2 parallel 1/0 cables in place of a single 4/0 cable.  This will give you the same voltage drop as a 4/0 and is easier to terminate.  It might be a bit more expensive.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it.  If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?


The problem may be that the conductor material is not (NEC) "AA-8000" alloy, that has been available for about 35 yrs now for building interior wiring.  IIRC, the alloy is combined with a small amount of iron, making it much more workable.  See www.southwire.com/Southwire/StaticFiles/Text/AluminumHist2.pdf page 5.

A fix may be [if there is suitable gutter space] to splice a piece of UL RHH extra-flexible copper conductor  www.phoenixwc.com/documents/LowVoltageCU/DLO(DieselLocomotivecable),ULRHH-RHW,600v-2kv.pdf
to the aluminum with connectors such as
www-public.tnb.com/util/docs/CG_OCC_CHT.pdf
www-public.tnb.com/util/docs/CG_OCC_CCC.pdf
  
 

RE: Any substitute for 4/0 XLPE?

I have to agree with dpc; Send the telephone techs home and get some electricians. Ask them if they want some cheese with that whine. You may try your wholesaler for a cable bender. There are several types on the market. Myself and a lot of the others here have bent and terminated large cables and don't have much sympathy with someone crying about 4/0. Feel free to quote me to the boys.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

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