Recyled content of steel shapes
Recyled content of steel shapes
(OP)
Hi everyone,
Do any of you have experience with specifying recycled content of steel shapes? With so much emphasis on green buildings and LEED these days, I've been having to specify recycled content percentages in steel shapes in my specifications. Anyone done this before and have a general rule of thumb to follow? Seems to me like it shouldn't really matter as long as the steel still meets the applicable yield and ultimate strength requirements it needs to for ASTM requirements.
Do any of you have experience with specifying recycled content of steel shapes? With so much emphasis on green buildings and LEED these days, I've been having to specify recycled content percentages in steel shapes in my specifications. Anyone done this before and have a general rule of thumb to follow? Seems to me like it shouldn't really matter as long as the steel still meets the applicable yield and ultimate strength requirements it needs to for ASTM requirements.






RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
No specific informations. But from experience of Japanese cars built in before 80s, which seemed to use steel made of cheap, dirty recycled scraps for body. Their engin last for 15 years or more, while needs new body every 4-5 years. Technology may have advanced to take care of this, just watch out.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
As structural engineers, we should not be put in a position to dictate a percentage of recycled material (particularly as a minimum) in anything! We are structural engineers. We know the finished properties of the material we use, but we don't need to tell a steel producer how to do his job. He's responsible for quality control of his products. He has to meet standards such as A36, A570, etc., all of which were developed long before "green" was popular.
If possible, resist it. Specify that preference will be given to producers who subscribe to "green" processes and develop "green" products, but don't get into telling them how much of anything to put in structural steel.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
The whole process seems relatively pointless to me, though. Scrap steel has value, and is largely recycled. If you specify more recycled steel for your project, you're not going to magically generate more scrap into existence. Meaning the same amount of iron ore is going to be mined, only it will be used on someone else's project instead of yours. That's not exactly a big accomplishment.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
For rebar, 100% is common, particularly in electric arc furnaces. For rolled shapes, I would be surprised if 80% is achieved routinely, though it could certainly be. Keep in mind, the higher the percentage of scrap, the more difficult the chemical control of the steel will be. That's one reason there are essentially no chemical controls on rebar, yet structural shapes have reasonably tight controls on the chemistry.
For my $0.02, I just think such quotas are wrong and generated by people who have no concept of the process, just a political position. As hokie66 pointed out, logic doesn't enter the process.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
In the UK, sustainanability has been on the agenda for quite some time now and is considered an integral part of the design process (along with health and safety considerations). It does make sense to have the engineer involved in these decisions because we do make a difference.
Yes the truth is very complicated and often contradictory but we have to start somewhere. When China and India are developed, we will not have enough resources to maintain the current resource usage rates that the western world has enjoyed so far.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
I grew up in a recycling environment (my father had a recycling business), so I know it reasonably well, have seen first hand the benefit, have participated in the process (knee deep in aluminum cans, running a bailing machine...working a smelter to melt aluminum transmission casings...dismantling electrical transformers to salvage the copper wire and steel plates), and continue to recycle.
As you noted, your country has been recycling and using the materials for years...long before the "green" push. Interestingly, this is one area that the free market was ahead of the politically correct movement and its political expedience.
I fully agree that engineers and scientist need to be involved. Perhaps we could make a difference if heard through the social ignorance and logic void of the current trend.
Diatribe over....
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
Contact AISI - American Steel and Iron Institute
www.steel.org
As I recall they and AISC advertise that most of the steel produced in the US is better than 90% recycled material.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
What you describe is exactly what occured. The IStructE got involved in the process and has been integral in providing guidance.
If only ASCE could do the same.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
To say that it won't do anything for the environment to require recycled steel may be true (as it won't directly increase the amount of recycled steel), but to say that using recycled products in general does nothing for the environment would be foolish.
In regards to who is verifying the recycled content, that comes down to the contractor. For all materials used in a project LEED requires that the percent recycled content be calculated by cost. If material cost is not known a standard 55/45 labor/material split is acceptable. Without documentation of recycled content you get no credit. Steel is the one exception as they allow you to consider 25% recycled content w/o documentation. Some suppliers provide documentation while others will not.
With this credit it seems to be left to the contractor to a large degree. The specs provide ways to get recycled content along with what the overall goal is. The contractor needs to tabulate and organize to see if he will meet the goals or not. If needed products need to be substituted to meet the overall project goal.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
None of us are talking down the importance of recycling. We just can't understand how all this paperwork (remember the forests) helps in controlling what really are market forces. The recycling industry is well developed and competitive. More bureaucracy doesn't help.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
Maybe considering recycled plastic money, coins..a way to go - 100% recycled.
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
"The recycled metals market is already mature and a recycled content approach may create market distortions and environmental inefficiencies. If a designer specifies high recycled content in a well meaning effort to reduce environmental impact, it may stimulate the market away from products where recycling is most economical. For metals, where there is a limited supply of recyced feedstock, market stimulation is ineffective and may result in inefficient processing and unecessary transportation'
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes
RE: Recyled content of steel shapes