3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
(OP)
I am having problems at my shop with a new to me clicker press (hydraulic press for die cutting). The seller assures me that the machine worked perfectly at their shop, but it does not seem to work correctly in my shop. Basically, the motor spins up fine (yes in the correct direction), but when I go to activate the press, it is really weak. I can barely punch through paper with a small die. I did keep a meter on the line to see if there is any droop in voltage, but it is rock solid at 208.
This is the second machine we tried with the same symptoms. The plate on the motor reads 220VAC 3 phase 60Hz, 1HP. I thought that there was a magical 10% rule on this type of motor so that they would operate from 200-240VAC? Any suggestions on options? The way I see it, I can either call the power company and see what my options are for getting 220 ($$$$ I am sure), or maybe a transformer setup. I called Grainger about it and they recommended PN 1H271, and two of them. How would this work? Wouldn't I need one on each leg? Thanks for any help!
This is the second machine we tried with the same symptoms. The plate on the motor reads 220VAC 3 phase 60Hz, 1HP. I thought that there was a magical 10% rule on this type of motor so that they would operate from 200-240VAC? Any suggestions on options? The way I see it, I can either call the power company and see what my options are for getting 220 ($$$$ I am sure), or maybe a transformer setup. I called Grainger about it and they recommended PN 1H271, and two of them. How would this work? Wouldn't I need one on each leg? Thanks for any help!





RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
NYBTG
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
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RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
They'd run it that way for a year but were anticipating increased thru-put demands.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Yes you can boost with 2 transformers. The circuit is called an "Open delta autotransformer" boost and it is the most economical circuit that I know.
If it is a 50Hz motor read further.
Voltages:
Try a 240:48 volt transformer.
On 208 volts that will develop 41.6V.
When you add the 41.6V to the 208V you will have 249.6V
That's close to 95% of the 264V that you want.
Should work.
If it is a 50 Hz motor let me know and I can walk you trough the transformer connections.
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
So I guess I will need help with that transformer circuit!
As for my sketch, I don't have any idea how I would wire it in any of those configurations since there are only three wires coming out of the motor. I guess I should assume that the three wires W2, U2, V2 are tied to U1, V1, W1 respectively, internally (delta config)?
Thanks again for all the help!
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
The motor is running on 208V. If the motor is supposed to be 240V, 60hz then it's running at 86% voltage and could produce 75% of rated torque. If it's a 240V, 50hz motor then it's running at 80% of rated voltage and could produce 64% of rated torque. From your description, it sounds like it's almost producing no torque which indicates to me the motor is connected for a voltage greate than 240V.
Finally, call the seller again and find out what their voltage is. If you're not sure about their answer, go visit the site and look for the main voltage as well as any possible step-up or boost transformers they may have been using to run it.
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
It's where those wires come out of the motor. Remove the cover plate. There will be a terminal block that those three wires connect with. Six screws and metal jumpers just like you pictured. Jumpers can be removed and rotated 90 degrees.
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Typically, in the 50hz world, that would be a 190/380V label or today it might be 200/400V.
I would think that, in the delta configuration, you would get good performance even on 60hz at 208V. I suspect you have it connected in wye which would leave the motor starved for voltage and very low in torque.
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
I did talk to the supplier again, and he said they have 240 and sometimes as hot as 250.
Thanks again, I am sure we will resolve it!
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Wouldn't that be a 220/380 or 230/400V motor for delta or wye respectively?
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
From where did you get it? US or non-US. The nameplate has been re-stamped, the connections are sub-standard and there is no cable gland.
If it dsoes not work, just go back to the seller with it. Not worth wasting energy or money on.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Harsh but true. That really does look rough.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Team08,
I would say that if you paid for it, you probably paid too much and you should try to return it. If it was thrown in for free, it might be salvageable. But from the looks of it, this thing has been to a rewinder and messed with, so the only way to tell for sure what you have is to take it to one again, which is not likely worth the time and money for a 1HP motor. A used one will likely cost you less.
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
team08, if you decide what voltage to try, I can suggest a transformer connection.
A 240:48V transformer will give you about 250V if fed from 208V.
Probably the closest size will be 250VA.
The 48V winding will have to support full motor current.
That gives 48V x 3.8A = 182.4VA
Check the price and availability on two 250VA transformers and let me know if you want to continue.
BTW today I was hooking up a 112KVA open delta, autotransformer buck transformer to power a group of 480V fans on 600V.
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Personally I'd buy a replacement motor from a recognised brand off ebay and dump this mutant motor in the skip or weigh it at the scrap yard. In that size range they're common as dirt and almost as cheap.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
If you are happy with 229V use the Grainger transformers. No guarantee.
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
If you are in N.A., there are number of companies that offer replacement. IE: Baldor MVM5550D.
The existing motor really need to be check out, you have no idea of its past life. Remove the motor, find a motor shop
and get estimate (overhall or repair) and cost on a replacement. Then you have a motor that will run for years.
Also use a good cable-conduit connector too.
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
Waross, can you give me a hand with what I will need for the transformers? I have 4 wire 208, but I think the neutral/ground wire is only used to ground the frame. Not sure if this affects the need for 2 or 3 transformers? Thanks again guys!
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
As others have said here, either buy a new motor matching your requirement or rewind this motor for the right voltage, speed and frequency in a good motor repair shop.
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
The points to bring out are H1, H-X, and X4.
Connect both H1's to "A"phase.
Connect one H-X to "B" phase and the other H-X to "C" phase.
Poweer the motor from "A" phase, one X4 and the other X4.
Or, use diagram G1, boosting.
I'm very tired today, so if someone challenges my information I'll take another look.
To calculate voltages, first add the primary voltage (240V and the secondary voltage (24V, 36V or 48V).
For example, 240V + 36V = 276V, but we will be feeding 208 rather than 240 so use 208V/240V for a developed voltage of 239.2V.
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
It that casting actually is part of the motor (custom cast drive-end endbell?) yet the rest of the motor is a standard frame size then maybe you could just use the stator of a new motor. You could also use the rotor of a standard frame motor if the rotor has the same shaft end. Piece something together to get the right voltage and a motor you know will work.
Read the third response from itsmoked describing the hydraulic press that was run for years at the wrong voltage. Just imagine how annoying that has been for the operators and how much production time has been lost with it that way. All because the people involved just accepted that's how it was instead of looking into it and getting it working correctly.
I wish you luck with the autotransformers because from your description on how weak the motor is I don't think an extra 40V is going to make it work significantly better. The motor should be running at 70% power. If it was just lacking a little power than maybe...
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase
RE: 3 phase 220VAC motor not running properly on 208 3 phase