grouting vs. underpinning
grouting vs. underpinning
(OP)
I have had GPR and borings done on my property and have some deep solutioning /sinkhole activity as well as significant buried organic laden sand /muck materials ( with organic contents in excess of 5%)
One engineer has recommended grouting for all sides of the house with the intent offilling the pourous and ravelled overburdened soil conditions over the limestone surface.
Two other engineers ( as well as 3 attorneys) have warned me not to do grouting because it adds so much weight to the soil and may result in damage to my home. They said I could expect to see new cracks, problems with closing doors and windows etc. One has recommended underpinning(9 pilings) to stablize the house. One has said I don't need to do anything now, but if my crack in my garage worsens, then he'd agree that I should do 8 underpins.
The underpinning makes more sense to me, but the insurance company's engineer insists grouting is the only way to do this. I'm very apprehensive about doing the grouting. Any advice?
Bill
One engineer has recommended grouting for all sides of the house with the intent offilling the pourous and ravelled overburdened soil conditions over the limestone surface.
Two other engineers ( as well as 3 attorneys) have warned me not to do grouting because it adds so much weight to the soil and may result in damage to my home. They said I could expect to see new cracks, problems with closing doors and windows etc. One has recommended underpinning(9 pilings) to stablize the house. One has said I don't need to do anything now, but if my crack in my garage worsens, then he'd agree that I should do 8 underpins.
The underpinning makes more sense to me, but the insurance company's engineer insists grouting is the only way to do this. I'm very apprehensive about doing the grouting. Any advice?
Bill





RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Good luck!
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
R.A. Hassett, P.E.
rah1616@hotmail.com
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Underpining or "soil nails", which by your description sound more like helical piers would be a better option.
Rik D.
Summit County
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Good Luck and Best Regards,
Rick Hassett, P.E.
R.A. Hassett, P.E.
rah1616@hotmail.com
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Grouting can be very expensive if you try to fill up sinkholes with very flowable grout. It may travel anywhere but where you need it.
I have recently been involved with a $200 million PADOT highway project in karst terrain where contractors has performed about $20 million worth of compaction grouting to remediate sinkholes near new bridge structures and under roadway paving. Compaction grouting was specified in an effort to minimize the grout take. The compaction grout is very low slump, low strength, pumped under pressure to compact the loose soils and cap over the sinkholes. Compaction grouting may be a viable option to your problem.
Contact: Layne Geotechnical www.laynegeo.com
or Structural Preservation Systems www.structural.com
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Chris Secrest
Hayward Baker inc.
Tampa, Fl
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
I love your post!
FloridaBill:
As you can see from all the comments, grouting is considered to be a bad idea - by almost everyone but the insurance companys' engineers, that is. If you want to put the insurance company on the spot, do what dicksewerrat suggested, with a twist. Demand that their engineer provide a sealed repair plan and proof of professional liability insurance with a per occurence limit of not less than $1,000,000 and an aggregate cap of not less than $2,000,000. From an A- (or better) rated insurance company. (Financial stability, you know.) And watch that insurance company crawfish! They will argue that their engineer is only responsible for providing them with a "reasonable" fix so they can estimate the cost and pay you. I'd reply by telling them that a repair plan with no "guarantee" is a repair that isn't worth buying!
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
I am thrilled that you responded in that way. "...a repair plan without a guarantee is a repair that isn't worth buying.." While I try to view my clients projects as if they were for me, I do often put in those weasel words. I guess that comes from being from Texas where standing with your feet planted on both sides of the fence will get barbed wire cut where it counts. Good call.
The truth will set you free. Best of luck. Geodude
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Thank you in advance...
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Best of Luck,
Rick Hassett
R.A. Hassett, P.E.
rah1616@hotmail.com
RE: grouting vs. underpinning
Please feel free to disagree as vigorously as you wish, as long as I can learn something too!
D. Bruce Nothdurft, MSCE, PE, PG