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Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
I was a solidworks admin for our company. Took me many years to get to that level.

Now, I was moved and I am using NX I-deas 5. WOW is this different. I can't use my spaceball since I am using a windows PC to dial into a Unix station. There is no feature tree, there are no planes, I had to tape words to keys on my keyboard so I know what does what (f1 is pan f2 is zoom etc), It took me 2 hrs to model a square and has taken me over an hour so far trying to figure out how to modify a dimension to change the size of the square.

Good god am I in for it. This program is far from easy to learn.  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

No it is not that hard.  All of the functions are there.  Extrude Sketch revolve.  Once you get used to this program SOlidworks is going to be hard to go back to.  Try building a section with interesting lines.  You do not have to trim your lines.  You can turn on stop at intersection.  Remember if you can find it right click. The history tree is different but there is a tree.  There is planes coordinate systems make sure you have them displayed in your display filters.
I feel your pain I would be lost going to Solidworks.
 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^Thanks. I didn't know anyone still used this section of the forum.

I can say one thing about this software, I can't find an up to date book and siemans doesn't have online training for it unless I fly to MI for a week.

I just purchased the online training and it only has tutorials for version 11 ideas so I hope it works. I am going thru it now.

I can tell you this, I have taught 6 graders how to draw a part and make a drawing from it in just 30 mins. Ideas on the other hand, forget it. The functionality may be there but it is not easy to learn in comparison.

I used autocad for 2 years, UG V18 for 2 years, SW for 5 years, and now this. I was a power user in AC, UGV18, and SW. Out of all of them, SW was the easiest to pick up.

This ideas is the devil :)

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

I have picked up I-Deas with only Autocad background.  No formal Training for me.  If you need to ask about a simple command or a quick way of doing things just ask.  Hint to bring up the side screen menu instead of clicking on the iconns for commands Hit CTRl+m .  Once you start using it things will go faster.  One question for you, are you using TDM or Teamcenter for your data management

Thanks

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
What is TDM?

We have teamcenter.

In solidworks we had no pdm system and 300,000 files.  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

TDM Team Data Management  It was the "Old" way I-Deas stored the files.  Teamcenter Replaces the "Old TDM".   

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ I havn't gotten that far yet to even use that. Right now I am going thru the tutorials and teaching myself how to make parts.

I am shocked we just had to pay 200-300 bucks for the tutorials. Solidworks includes full tutorials with every release for free in the help files.  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

A few Key points

1 Start every part with a Coordinate System, search Help for BORN

2 Use sketch in place to select on of the planes of the CS

3 start the line tool, then right click to bring up focus, focus on the 2 of the axis of the plane

4 Draw what ever geometry you want, just remember that dimensioning is always from one object to another, so if you want to dimension a line you need to pick each end not just the line itself

5 start the extrude command, pick the lines in the sketch you want to extrude to fomrn the section, Middle mouse to OK then drag to extrude

6 Use sketches for everything !!!!
 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

I was in a similar boat, going from 4 years of SW in college to I-deas at work.  I completely agree that I-Deas is inferior, older, and far uglier than SW.    Unfortunately, I was forced to learn this software, I still hate it, but my modeling skills are up to par by now.

The other thing that has kept me going is that we are moving from I-deas to NX 4.0/6.0 within the next year.  From what I understand Siemens is phasing out I-deas over time, and they will have a whole few departments dedicated to helping people make the switch.  

Any specific questions when it comes to I-deas?  I should be able to help you considering I was in your shoes about 9 months ago.   

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Hi arcticcatmatt

You have my sympathy, I-deas is a truly awful piece of software from a user friendy standpoint, though it is quite powerful in other ways simple animations for example are easy to do in ideas. I changed from Solid Edge to Ideas V9 and that was quite a shock I can tell you. You just need time with I-deas. If you're going to change to NX soon then don't worry too much - that is much better.
 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

I have used i-deas for about 10 years and yeah its not the easiest program to learn, but it is very flexible.  I have also used SW, UG, Catia and they all use the same basic concepts to do most things.  Draw a sketch and then perform a boolean operation.  

I have been using using SW for about a year and a half.  there are some nice features that is has.  But I always feel like my hands are tied, in I-deas there always seemed like there were a few different ways of doing things.  

Setting up and installing each has its good points and bad points.  I-deas more difficult to install but much easier to set up templates for parts, models, and drawings.

Data management in ideas is much better too (TDM or Teamcenter).

I doubt there is anything that one can do that the other can't,  it just what you are used to.

I was just the opposite from you, I used I-DEAS for 10+ years and know it inside and out. I am getting there with SW and still run in to the occasional head-scratcher with SW but usually figure it out.

Bang for the Buck you do get much more for you money in SW.  

SW does not seem to handle large assemblies as well or large complex parts as well either.  SW is much more of a resource hog.

One thing that may help, generally i used wireframe viewing in ideas  more then shaded, and just the opposite for solidworks.

Actually I-DEAS comes with tutorials for most of the basic things (parts, drawings, assemblies etc).  They should be accessible from the help, maybe the sample models supplied for the tutorials are not installed but they also come withe it.

Any questions on I-DEAS fell free to ask
 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
Well I am still working in it. I have got to say this program is the devil.

It is SO Hard to learn coming from a new easy to use cad program like solidworks. I miss automatic rebuilds, mass usage of constraints, SO easy to make a drawing in solidworks with auto generate 3 views.

I hate I-deas and I hate it with a passion. Every single thing that I am used to being automatic is no longer automatic. Heck the other day I needed to put a detail view on a print, I had to draw the circle, line coming from it, and the circle around my detail view. Took me forever!

To make a 3-4 view print in I-deas you have to put the views on the paper and resize borders and move views and yadda yadda. Took me a 50 page tutorial in order to do that. In solidworks.. one button DONE. No tutorial.

I simply cannot wait till this program is phased out for good.  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Come on now.  It is not that bad.  Lol  It is just different strokes for different programs.  Hint Use rectangles for your detail views.  Since you select with a rectangle it fits around the detail so much better.  Try using view origin to align the views up correctly. Two problems solved what else is bugging ya.  LOL  

I-Deas has a detail command but you do have to draw the lines and label the view correctly.  Your telling me Solidworks Labels and makes the views for you in all one click?   That would be nice.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ One click.. done. Yeah its very nice. Most everything with solidworks is 1 click haha.

It is impossible to compare solidworks to I-deas. I-deas is from 1996 3button mouse stuff. Solidworks is advanced state of the art 2009 spaceball usable awesomeness.

To put in a 1/4-20 tapped hole in solidworks - 3 clicks and it is in AND it calls it out for you on the drawing automatically. I-deas - draw the sketch, extrude it, and type it into your print manually. What a joke.

I-deas  doesn't put a dent in solidworks and I wouldnt' expect it to as there is a 12-13 year difference.

I have spent all morning trying to build an assembly. I can't slide stuff on the screen because it won't let me, it doesn't matter if a part has a part number because they are all in different folders (I shouldn't have to call this guy and call that guy!). IN SW to mate two parts.. can be done in ONE CLICK. Hold alt and drag what you want to mate to what you want to mate it too. Or if you want to click more than once use the mate button, then it is 2 clicks HA. It knows what mate to do automatically (smart mate).

In Ideas to copy a part in an assembly and mate it.. many clicks and confusion, hard to learn. In SW.. hold control and drag the part on the screen (that copies it), then hold alt and drag it to your part you want to mate it to (that mates it). 2 clicks to copy AND mate a new part.

2 clicks is a hell of alot easier to learn than a 40 page tutorial and 20 clicks.

Not to mention SW has a feature tree/assembly tree that a 3rd grader could understand.

I will get off my rant. UGHA!

 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
To insert a component into my assembly.

I-deas - 9 clicks
SW - 2

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

arcticcatmatt.
I am with whagen1974. I was on I-DEAS for over 12 years as user and sysadm. I started with I-DEAS MS 1c. that goes a lot of years back. Rigt now for past 3 years I am on SW. Yes, it is a nice software, nice GUI and all that happy razmataz, but when it comes to cabability and flexibility SW is in its infancy in comparison to I-DEAS. It still does not have features in SW 2009 that I had in I-DEAS 9 in 2003. You just do not know this software at all. Transition is always hard.
Wish you good luck.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ Or you don't know SW well enough haha.

I am sure both programs have features the other one does not have. But things in ideas are not automatic and take many clicks and a huge learning curve.

I do enjoy a constructive conversation however.

What are you finding that SW will not do that I-deas did do.

 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

you can extrude and draft at the same time, with different drafts on each edge.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ You are correct. SW does cut with a draft but not a different draft for each edge. I have never had to do that but if I did I would just perform a swept cut from sketches.

Why does ideas call a cut an extrude? Confuses new learners.

Why did it just take me a bunch of work to create a drawing and its 3 views when in SW it is just one click to create my drawing with 3-4 views right on it, aligned, and ready to go along with the title block automatically filled out.

I just got 2 step files I need to open. I-deas is giving me an error that some environment orbit or whatever needs to be installed. I had to make a call for us to pay a contractor to come in and fix the issue. SW opens a huge amount of different softwares without any translators installed.  

I taught a class of 6 graders to model and detail parts in less than a couple hours. The next day I taught 3 72 year old men how to do the same. We had 72 year old men and 6 graders exchanging files working on a project for a high school robot thing for donation. SW of course. I-deas.. forget it haha.

Here is a question.
In solidworks you have a square block model and its drawing done. But you want to make the same thing just with a hole in it (different part number). Just do a "pack and go", type in the new part number and it creates the new part and drawing automatically. Open the new part number and put the hole thru it, add that dimension to the new print.. done. New part and model created in just a couple clicks and seconds.

How do I do that in I-deas? Will it do it? I am not there yet but will be in the next couple days.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Extrude.... Why have lots of different commands when you can have one that fits all. Cut, Join,intersect... all under the options

You can create a new variant by copying the drawing in Manage Bins. You then have an option to also copy the part rather than referencing the existing part. Now edit the history on the new part.

Drawing templates can be set to create standard views and you can also drag in attributes into the title block. This takes some configuartion but is possible.

The translators rely on Orbix which consists of 4 services. If one of these services goes down, a reboot will normally rectify this. Firewall/ Antivirus may be causing these an issue or change of machine name

The thing I like about I-deas is that there are many different ways to achieve the end result. If you hit a brick wall you'll always manage to find a way round it.
 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
New questions -

1. How do I cut my assembly in half to look inside? In SW I am used to the glass plane feature that allows you to slide this plane thru an assembly to view the section view on your screen wherever you want.

2. Is there a concentric mate or variable distance mate? Example - I make a cylinder with a 2 inch stroke, If I put a variable distance mate on it from 0-2 I can click and drag the shaft of the cylinder and it will slide out to 2 inches only.. that is in SW. How do I do it in I-deas?

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
Dang.. I can't edit that post. I had a number 3 also

3. I have to do a weldment. Is there a weldment feature in ideas? Hopefully one that automatically generates the cutlist also?  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

1. Use Dynamic Clip It is cool See JPG to get to this feature

2.  I am confused on this you just can put in a dimension constraint and modify the dimension for what you want.  You can also Animate this dimension from 0 - 2.  Or use Assembly equations.  


3.  Weldments You are talking C channels and i-Beams and such We do not have this in our I-Deas but I do not work with weldments.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ Thanks. I am trying to use the dynamic clip thing but I can't get it to slide thru the part. Can I only slice it on a plane? Right now it cuts thru my assembly 20% of the way thru but I want to drag it thru the assembly and watch it.

As far as the cylinder mate goes I am used to being able to just click the cylinder and drag it out so it is extended, I guess here I will have do it different with dimensions and clicks and views and filters and whatever.

No weldments? oh man.

I just spent 10 mins trying to click the face of a part. I rotated it every which way, tried F8, it would want to click everything but the face! I made a phone call and was told to hit the icon that looks like a TV to redisplay. Apparently that is not the same thing as UPDATE. It worked. UGH!

I miss my spaceball and the ability to just click and drag my parts to rotate them or move them.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

oK If you are in 12m4 release there is an issue with Dynamic clip

Hit CTRL+M to bring up side screen menu then Click on display options and hit reset and couple of times.  Then get back into your dynamic clip box and click the drag icon and it should work for you.  How many Planes do you have turned on under options.  If you have two planes you hit the drag command and then you to pick the plane you want then drag that plane.

Try f12 to redisplay

Never move your parts

Always move the instance in the assembly.  If you move the part, it will move that same amount in your assembly.

 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ Yep that worked thanks. I am in NX I-deas 5 m3 - C3P 13.3 whatever all that means.

When I said move the part, I ment as in dragging it across the screen. I-deas has this icon to move, rotate, drag.. I am used to rotating my assembly and parts with the space ball or just the buttons on the mouse. Ideas had to turn it into a multi clicking process :(

Well now I am trying to design a part that goes into my assembly to fit over and around these other parts (it is a fixture). I am used to doing a simple create new part and making it right in my assembly.. a top down design.. but I am being told not to do that in ideas and to just take measurements with the ruler and design the part separate.



 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

So you are automotive supplier then with the C3P package I do believe.

You can design on the part while it is in the assembly. YOu can Acess the history sketch Focus lines from other stuff in the assembly also you can do Associative copies of other surfaces in the assembly.

that sounds cool being able to rotate the part with a space ball.  Aligning parts up would be so much easier.

 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

One thing I-deas is actually quite good at is the sketch in place within assembly. Just put yourself into the master modeller with an assembly on the bench and use sketch in place. You then choose any face you want make your 2 D sketch then 'extrude as new part'. then it prompts for a new name and your part is there sketched in place. You just need to then go and swicth to the assembly mode and be sure to add your new part to the assembly tree. You'll then have an instance and the part on the screen so you can close the part if you want and continue working with your assembly.
Good luck with I-deas I'm using NX5 and must confess do not miss I-deas one little bit...

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

How big was the learning curve when you went From I-Deas to NX5?

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Going from I-deas to NX5 is not too bad. In my previous company I used Solid Edge 12 about 8 years ago. Many functions in NX5 are similar to solid edge especially the sheet metal mode. When migrating from I-deas there is more incentive :). Solid Edge to I-deas was much more painful.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
I am putting holes in ideas for a C'bore 1/4-20 SHCS. I SW I am used to just clicking hole wizard, 1/4-20 SHCS c'bore, DONE.

In I-deas it seems that I have to look up the numbers in machinery handbook and cut them into the part with features. Next thing I know I will be using word perfect or lotus 123 hehehe

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Yes, it is often back to basics with I-deas. At least you'll know its right I suppose. Sometimes we rely heavily on the pre-loaded data - we have to hope its right. If its in the good book then you'll be OK!

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
^ That preloaded data is identical to the machinery handbook, thats where it came from. Even press/slip fits (H7 and so on) are automatic.

Another day... more questions :)

1. Tapped holes in my drawing. They look like normal holes. Do I have to manually sketch in the dotted center lines for the threads? Do I have to just put a note pointing to the hole and say 2X M5 x .8 ?

2. How do I do a dowel hole symbol?

3. All my dimensions have commas instead of decimal points. I figured out how to change one.. but how do I change them all?

4. How do you line up one view to another view?


As I dig into this program more, I just cannot figure out why some companies are still using this. It would be like trying to design a website on your cell phone.
 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

1. Tapped holes in my drawing. They look like normal holes. Do I have to manually sketch in the dotted center lines for the threads? Do I have to just put a note pointing to the hole and say 2X M5 x .8 ?

I draw them in by hand in 2D drafting.  This is huge and other arguments for doing this is partion the model to show minor of threads.  This is not one of I-Deas strong points.  Yes always call out your threads

2. How do I do a dowel hole symbol? What is that?  Dimension it with tolerances.  

3. 3. All my dimensions have commas instead of decimal points. I figured out how to change one.. but how do I change them all?   Under modify there is a icon called edit multiple dims or type EM then select all the dims in your drawing.  You can change the defaults but this gets more interesting.  I will not get into that at this time.

4. How do you line up one view to another view? This is called view orgin  Type VO or go to top right of icon stack. Then click the origin in the view of the part which should be a 2d coordinate system looking object then line it up with the one in the other view.  You will get this play with it.

5. HOw do design a cad program on your cell phone   First
LOL

Have fun



 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

I agree with an earlier comment by whagen1974 that Ideas handles large complex parts much better than SW.
I think one of the main reasons for this is the linear nature (1-dimensional) of the SW feature tree (history). As soon as this gets to more than 100 or so steps, it becomes very difficult to find your way around.
Some of the complex moulded parts I get involved with in Ideas have over 2000 steps in the tree (see attached jpg), and the 2-dimensional structure that can be built up in the tree is very useful for finding your way around the various features. I think I am right in saying you can't even zoom in and out of the tree in SW, to see the whole thing!

Inherent in this Ideas modelling approach is the use of complex feature nodes, which maintain their complete history even when extracted and used in another part.
I have been using Ideas for the last 14 years, and also SW for the about 4 years. I can see very clearly the differences, SW is certainly much easier to use to begin with, but Ideas is a much more complete modelling solution.

What is the tree structure like in NX5 or 6? I looked at it a while ago (NX4) and it was very SW-like.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
Thanks SDETERS!

I-deas history tree sucks. It is just unlabeled dots. SW has a feature history tree that is just a click to "roll back" and they are all easily labeled and expanded with a + sign like normal windows formatting.

When SW tree gets more than 100 steps it is hard to find your way around? Just click the feature on the model you want to modify and it highlights it in the feature tree and scrolls to it automatically. You can also search the feature tree if you named the feature something.

I-deas a much more complete modeling solution? I just peed my pants hehe.

I just had a problem figuring out how to get my title block imported. My coworker said "click the bolt". I have to click the bolt to get my title block?? Then after I get it in, it doesn't fit. He says I need to make my sheet size match my format size. My sheet size is A2 so I do not know what sheet size that is (I am familiar with A/B/C/D/E).

Ya know.. in SW.. ALL of this is automatic and 1 or 2 clicks with no prior knowledge of the program needed.

Comparing I-deas to SW is like comparing a Corvette to an Amish Buggy :)

 

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

YOu can set up templates when you go and create your drawings.  It is really easy.  You can set templates up for different sizes of drawings.  This can be a huge time savings for you if you do not use templates at the current time.   After you set these up it is really one or two clicks and you get your title block layers and everything already set.  I can tell you how this is done.  It is really easy.

For your node names in your history tree.  You can control the size of these.  Go to options preferences clcik on modler/assembly then slide the bar that says history access node display name.

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
Question -

Ordinate dimensions on a drawing. I used them but I missed something. How can I add it to my dimension set?  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Your Dimension Set I am confused?  Please clarify

Thanks

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

(OP)
I set 0 from the center of my part and located some features with ordinate dimensions.

I then added a feature and want to add it to my ordinate dimensions (dimension set).

The only way I figured out how to do it was, start a new dimension set and locate my component, then delete the 0.  

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

I think if you hit "no datum" On the bottom of ordinate dimension area you can set 0,0 to anything you want and get a dimension to your feature from that 0,0.  This should be a two selection process.  We do not use ordinate dimensioning I have just played with it a little.   

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

You are certainly being constrained by your work environment more so than by I-DEAS! Normally, you can use the spaceball in modeling & assembly, and drag instances to your heart's content. Yes, you can even drag and have instances snap together for automatic assembly constraints. This is all in how your user environment is set up. It looks like either no one cared enough to set all this up for you, or you are hemmed in by the requirements of C3P. Ask some of your company's I-Deas power users to give you a start. MOST of the stuff you are struggling with can normally be solved easily.
You may also catch some I-DEAS users over at the forums of PLM World (the generically titled users group for Siemens PLM software - I-DEAS, NX, SolidEdge, etc). http://plmworld.org/
[This week may be slow due to the national conference going on.]

RE: Just started I-deas from Solidworks

Some calrification on never moving the part (relative to the absolute 0,0,0,).  When you select a part you will get eight white corners outside of the part (which I will refer to as the "bounding box").  You can then select the move command to move the part.  NEVER EVER do this.  The move is recorded in the history.  If you were to rollback to anode before the move was made you will see the part in the original location.  To move the part in space move the coordinate system that you created in the begining of the part.  (Oh yeah, rule no. 1: ALWAYS start each part with a coordinate system).  This way your part won't bounce around all over the place while rolling back in the history tree.

Glad to hear you will be moving toward UG NX soon.  I was at a company that made the move from i-deas to NX3.  the company after that was making the transition from I-deas to solidworks, where i recieved a ton of training but got little time on the software.  I believe you'll find UGNX to be quite a bit like solid works.

I have been on I-deas for about 9 years.  I have also got time on UG NX, Catia V5 and a teensy amount of time on Solidworks.  All CAD apps have they're strengths and weaknesses.  Handicaped people can live very full life living within certain limitations.  Mabey you need to adopt the attitude of a phisically challanged person while woking on i-deas and quit the griping.

  

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