How many times less than sixty is six?
How many times less than sixty is six?
(OP)
This was a question on my 9-yr-old's maths homework this week. It's no wonder the world at large is mathematically illiterate.
I like helping her with her maths, but really didn't want to with this one. What is the right answer? 0.9, 10? How can I explain the stupidity of the question to someone her age?
I like helping her with her maths, but really didn't want to with this one. What is the right answer? 0.9, 10? How can I explain the stupidity of the question to someone her age?
- Steve





RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
So far we have three answers of 0.9, 10 and 9. I would go with 0.9 but am not sure it is not 0.1, it is however Sunday morning here and I have a lovely hangover so I am off to walk the dog and let this eat away at my sadly malfunctioning brain.
I wonder how many answers a group of engineers can come up with for a question set for a nine year old?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
I think the teacher is asking "what is sixty divided by six", hence the answer should be 10.
Many people use "times less than" as the inversion of "times as much"
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
A.
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Now my brain hurts and I'm 6.22 x 9....
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
I guess 10 is the expected answer.
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
When I was teaching, my students got clear doses of "red pen".
There's also a good chance that the homework problem came from a textbook. The editors often don't know the subject matter as well as they should. I've edited portions of a college textbook, wondering how some of the stuff got left in for the first five editions.
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Now I know why your writing is above average, what you used to teach, engineering?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
I taught for 5 years to Juniors and Seniors in a BS program for Building Construction Management. I taught "crossover" courses that were meant to teach the future General Contractors the engineering fundamentals of structures, soils, construction materials, and pavements. This was in 4 separate courses taught each year, sometimes twice yearly.
It was a great experience. I enjoyed it and I hope I imparted some common sense and practicality into subjects that normally cause contractors to glaze over. Often the challenge was teaching just enough for familiarity, without trying to make engineers out of non-engineers (they were not required much in the way of math, physics or chemistry for pre-requisites).
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
The draftsmen in our office have a 'red pen award' that they give out to the engineer with the greatest fondness for red pen. Alas, they give it out in jest and do not truly appreciate the beauty of it.
I brought up this 'less than' topic a few months ago and there were a significant number of engineers who saw nothing wrong with it. Unfortunately I think this is a case of poor english that has been used so often in advertising that people do not realise the issue.
Dont get me started on 90% fat free e.t.c.
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Ron:
It teaching technical topic by plain english) harder than you have stated. I commend your work and effort. Also, your appreciation is well accepted.
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
My wife got a bit irritated at me for using it on my son's work when he was in elementary school. I explained that it isn't punishment (as perceived), just a way to set apart the original from the change so there's no ambiguity.
Advertising....so many topics, so little space to complain!
There was a time in my office when the junior engineers and technicians competed to get a letter or report past me with no corrections. So much for the futility of the young!
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
The teaching profession is not in a good way because the brightest students go into other, better paying lines of work. Here in Queensland this year, only ONE high school student who achieved the highest scholastic rating decided on teaching as a course of study.
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Cheers,
gr2vessels
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
(what is one times less than sixty I wonder?)
Related...
We had our sales tax (VAT) cut from 17.5% to 15% a while back. Prices in the UK are almost always inclusive of sales tax, so many shops have been discounting at the checkout to account for the reduction in sales tax. Explaining why a 2.5% cut in tax only equates to a 2.1% rebate is fun to explain.
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
"If a brick weighs ten pounds plus half a brick, what does a brick weigh?"
He seemed really miffed when he first asked me this and I told him the right answer in a couple of seconds.
---
Regarding schools, my daughter goes to the local state primary. Unknowingly we bought a house in the catchment area of one of the best state schools in this part of the world. A complete fluke.
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
where b = mass of brick
Ok, I'm stumped
Sompting, unless your daughter is confused, just accept it's 10 and move on.
Sometimes it's essential to be completely correct in terms of formula, conventions, assumptions, syntax...
Other times it's only necessary to be correct enough to give the person the answer they want/need.
Difficult part is knowing which.
Your daughter may not learn perfect terminology from this question, however she may start to learn how to give the answer someone wants. Which in exams can be usefull, as well as when dealing with your boss etc.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
"If a brick weighs half a pound and half a brick, what does a brick and a half weigh"
Equally simple, but great to ask people in the pub after a couple of pints of falling over water and watch their eyes glaze over....
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
The question asks "How many times less than sixty is six?"
This question has one (and only one) correct answer. From a language perspective the main subject is sixty and is being linked to the instance counter "times". This has the effect of setting the value of one "time" as sixty. Thus the answer is 0.9 (as somptingGuy originally pointed out).
The question INTENDED to ask "Six is how many times less than sixty"
In which the main subject is six, hence "time"=6 and the answer is 10. (I know I am correct, but is there an English major that can set me straight or explain it better?)
This is a GREAT question:
1. It teaches the student the confusion that results from poor use of the English language.
2. It teaches the student how to "read between the lines" to answer the question that is intended to be asked rather than the one that is asked (a fact that they will learn with their first boss, if they are anything like me).
3. It teaches the parent not to trust what is being passed off as an education these days and always pay attention to their children so they actually get a "proper" education.
4. And it teaches the teacher that they are not infallible and to evaluate all answers based on merit and correctness and not to mark it wrong because "that's what it says in the key".
Or maybe, for the 90% of students out there who don't "get it" (or have dads like SomptingGuy to supplement their education) it reinforces bad English skills, teaches them to pump out the basic answer without critically thinking about the question, and if they do figure it out (most likely) teaches them that their teacher has a closed mind, won't accept their correct answer, and disrespects their opinions because they are only a kid. Situations like this make me want to tear out my hair at the school system.
I agree with the red Pen comment. The harder the red pen is on you the better you become.
-Keith
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Anyway, I do agree with the statements about the state of our education system. Honestly, though, it's always been this bad.
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Six is 10 times less than 60.
Makes sense to me.
Although the question was worded VERY poorly, I'm still going with 10 as my answer.
V
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
60 - 10 * 6 = 0 "Incorrect" answer
60 - 0.9 * 6 = 6 "Correct" answer, but:
"Six is 0.9 times less than sixty." Well, 0.9 times WHAT?
Parse this question any way you want it is never going to make sense.
"six is zero point nine times 60" makes sense.
"six is zero point nine times six less than 60" makes sense.
If you can't unambigousously restate the word question in a numerical equation, it MAKES NO SENSE.
Regards,
Mike
P.S. It is interesting how much verbiage has been expended by engineers trying to explain this question. If it were media or pols (or teachers) they would swallow it whole and be done:)
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
The answer is WTF........
Fe
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Not picking on me at all.
I take "6 is 10 times less than 60", although incorrect, to mean, "6=60/10"
I understand that times less than is incorrect in itself, but based on the intended meaning, I'd say the answer is 10.
V
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
After posting, it occurred to me that maybe the correct answer was not intended to be a SINGLE NUMBER, but an EXPRESSION, any expression that evaluated to....
Nah, I still can't make sense of it.
Regards,
Mike
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
This is whats wrong with our society nowadays........
Fe
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
It was based on the idea of comparisons but the examples they were using where ridiculous.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
- Steve
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: How many times less than sixty is six?
Fe