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HAUNTED HOUSE?
3

HAUNTED HOUSE?

HAUNTED HOUSE?

(OP)
I have client describe the following happening at her house:

"I have the most disturbing noises inside the walls, it sounds like things are falling not just settling noises, bought the home 1.5 years ago after 5 months I heard strong noises and some are settling but these noises are out of the ordinary. Have had it thouroughly checked for rodents etc. Now I was told that it could be structural problems, insurance structural engineer was inconclusive so now I want my own engineer. I have a scratching behind the headboards in all then like something is falling.and knocking all the time."

The house was built in 2003, and is on slab on grade. Can anyone tell what should I look for to determine the cause of noises?  

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Seems like you should spend time there and hear them for yourself.  Bring some candles and a Ouigi board.  

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Place a voice operated sound recorder and than listen to the sounds.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Look for bare windows.  I've seen widows act like diaphragms and amplify outside noises, causing standing sound waves.  If there are bare windows, have them hang curtains or move the headboard a couple of inches.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

By the way I bought a house in 2007 which was built in 2006 so pretty new I guess.
It's brand new fridge in the kitchen when turns off, creates voices like ocean waves. They are pretty scary at night
Before we figured out what was the origin. Also the kitchen exhaust fan lid is loose. With strong winds it bangs on
Aluminium duct behind and creates noise that whole house is about to fall. See if you can find similar problems.
 

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

I would still look for rodents, possums, racoons, cats, etc.  They can come and go pretty much as they please.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

(OP)
what brand is the fridge?

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Is it vinyl siding?  This can make noises if it is installed too tight I think.  Sounds like mice inside the wall.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Are there vent stacks in these walls?
 

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Plumbing (hot water pipes) expanding, then contracting against fixed supports that are too tight.

So the water in the pipe changes temperature, the pipe pulls for a while, then "jerks" into its new position when the movement is too great.   As the pipe cools off (after the dishwasher finishes, or after the tub or shower is filled) then the "pull" is in the opposite direction, but at a different time.  One movement might be against a stud or frame and cause nose, the other direction will be away from a stud and be quiet.  Cold water lines might have water hammer problems, but seldom expansion problems - unless they go through an unheated slab or crawl space.

Drain lines were also noisy in my old house - same problem.

...

But we had some d*mn noisy squirrels in the attic last fall ....   They didn't drop things though.  Merely "scritched and scittered" around.   

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

structurebeton,

   I have read some articles on skeptical investigations of poltergeists.  Apparently, these almost invariably occur in houses that contain disturbed teenagers.

   Can you rip out any walls?  

   I had a buy a refridgerator for my house.  The manual has a section describing all the weird noises it is capable of making.

               JHG

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

racookpe1978's explanation of piping noise is very possible, but there could be more:

I had a client with similar problems, told her it may be poltergeist...  The real problem turned out to be very poor (expansive) soil combined with tree root growth under the foundation.  The result was the house was slowly moving "up and down" all the time.  Her house was over 15 years old - the nails in many structural members had worked loose so movement caused a lot of squeaking. The movement had also caused plumbing piping to separate, HVAC ducts to buckle, and water intrusion thru siding cracks resulting in mold & mildew.

www.SlideRuleEra.net idea
www.VacuumTubeEra.net r2d2

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Guys, my cold fridge is getting lot of heat here now. Let me remind thread is about something else.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

if your fridge is getting hot, I'd strongly recommend we IMMEDIATELY reduce the heat load (and your subsequent electric bill) ... by removing as many cold brews as soon as possible from the interior of said refrigerator.

Strictly in the matter of saving as much money as possible, of course.  

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Get a borescope and look into the wall where the noises are heard.  If rodents, you'll see evidence.  If termites and falling pieces of wood, you'll see evidence.

Usually these things have an explanation that when found gives you a V-8 moment (sorry for the US television reference, but I rarely find things like this that fit...so I'll use it!)

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

whoever mentioned the vinyl siding is onto something.  most new houses are brick in the front and vinyl on the other three sides.  the rear of my house undergoes a lot of temperature differntial and the vinyl is constantly expanding/contracting and the noise are really loud POPS!

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

(OP)
The house we are talking is in Georgia. Where is your house?

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

bat ghost  ghost2 shocked

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

2
The ACI code currently covers this problem quite comprehensively - a building's resistance to poltergeists is proportional to the square of a typical wall's thickness.

You simply work out the wall's Ghoul-factor (t^2*gamma*H) where t=thickness(m),gamma=density(kN/m3),H=height of wall(m).

So measure the wall height and thickness, check the GF factor and make sure that GF > 0.7.

If this fails, you might just have to call Ghostbusters. I hear Egon is on the desk most days.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

SlenderBeam - very nice....love it.

 

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

And I'd do what Ron suggests.  That boroscope thingy.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Expose the wall covering at the suspected noisy location and observe. Plumbing, HVAC ducts/penetrations, and falling martar (I hear all the time in my basement), or maybe a live animal (one family found a cat inside a newly bought couch after the wife cried "someone touches my butt"), all could be the suspect.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

(OP)
I inspected the house, and it appears the noises are because the builder used foam insulation panels instead of OSB in most of the wall. Only corners have real OSB sheathing.

The house is 2 stories, so slight wind can produce movement, which in turn produces the noise because of the reduce lateral strength...

Based on the picture, can you confirm if this is foam insulation? or is it structural insulated panels?

Can anyone say if this is allowed by code?

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Dosn't that most foam board came with pink or blue color? I don't see code issue unless required by fire prevention concerns.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Seems like there's a aluminum foil covered-layer on the right (with the "Energy Star logo), a foam layer (maybe 1/2"' thick) then (maybe) a OSB layer also 1/2" thick, then (maybe) a 2x4.

Picture is blurry, I'm guessing about the 2x4.   

If you blew instant-setting foam into the cavity, wouldn't it tend to "anchor" the foam boards in the middle of their spans and prevent them from "popping" so loudly?   

I can't think of any ways of changing the end points of the foam boards - that are now wedged on place/anchored so they would "slide" easier.

----

(Is that refrigerator listed above still threatened with thermal overload?  We may need to remove and empty some more aluminum  cylindrical storage pressure vessels from the interior before they get warm (er, become thermally unstable) and increase internal pressure excessively.   (Only in the interests of  safety, of course.)

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

(OP)
There is no OSB, there is only a 2x4 at the top as "rim" band at the top of the wall.

Basically, the builder used insulation boards INSTEAD of OSB sheathing.

OSB sheathing was only used at the corners of the house. Homeowner reported "scratching noises" inside walls, and near corners of bedrooms she reported hearing louder impact noises, like something is falling.

So, the OSB panels release energy as the house moves causing the loud noises.

I am attaching a picture showing how the house may have been built (But not related to our case)
 

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

The photo shows fiberboard sheathing and OSB.  The fiberboard may be structural or non-structural.  You will have to remove some exterior siding to confirm.

Check the brand of the material.  Sometimes lesser known manufacturers will tag onto existing approved products.  Check the building code approval documents or the Evaluation Report to get code "approval".  It gives very specific installation instructions and they must be followed for code approval in each application.

Your photo is not clear, but it looks like you have a radiant barrier insulation board that was inset between the studs.  It is likely separate from the sheathing, whatever that may be besides OSB.  My guess is that it is a fiberboard sheathing as shown in your second photo.

If you are in a reasonable wind area, you will get movement that can cause all sorts of noises; however,those should not occur at other times.  Check for thermal variations as these will occur at various times during the day.

To solve the problem, it would be better to use some instrumentation to record movement, whether thermal or other.  Couple that with some destructive observation and the solution will probably be apparent.

Note that foam insulations can be noisy when they get moved, particularly if tightly confined.  Your insulation board looks like polyisocyanurate, but could be extruded polystyrene.  It is not expanded polystyrene, as the cut edge is too clean.

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

StructuralBeton:  Is that StructuralBéton?  Just curious...

I've never heard of this problem before, but I am not too surprised.  It is similar to a very famous commercial problem which I have encountered, known as "banging bolts".  Incorrect bolt installation, or poor specification on the part of the engineer, causes bolts to be insufficiently tight.  In effect the beams have a semi-stiff connection, with the tension of the bolt not engaging sufficient friction to hold the beams, which then slip and "bang" at the bottom of their run.

I will be keeping an eye on the thread:  Good luck, and keep us up to date!

Cheers,

YS

B.Eng (Carleton)
Working in New Zealand, thinking of my snow covered home...

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

Not  enough info to suggest a solution ...but answers to these questions may help clarify the problem.

1. Can the resident keep a diary of time & location?
    Specifically, when does the noise occur? (Weekends? nights? temperature changes? moisture changes?)
House is 6 years old. When did the noise start?  ( Feb 08? ) Was there a  hard freeze or hail storm in Feb 08?
    Did the owner install anything else at that time? ( security system ? irrigation? Change water heater/ dryer / ac / cable TV? )  
    
    When is the house quiet ?
    
2. Where specifically are the noises occurring?  Lower story outside walls?  Walls that have brick exterior?  Walls that have plumbing or electric conduit?
    Any places where noises have never occurred? ( inside  walls? Garage wall ? )

3. Is the "scratching and ...falling": noise re-occurring at the same spot? Or different spot each time?

4.  Take a mechanic's stereoscope and listen to the walls. ( or put an ear next to each wall and door  Are there other noises occurring?
    
5. Any trees overhanging the house or brushing against the wall?

 

RE: HAUNTED HOUSE?

There is nothing wrong with having sheathing other than OSB as long as the OSB is used at the corners and every 25' per the IRC.  There are some other requirements for this as well, but this is allowed by IRC.  It's more energy efficient to use the insulation board instead of the OSB where permissible.  In today's society where green rules, this is a plus.

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