NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
(OP)
I know that for a 13R sprinkler system the underground supply has to be pressure tested for 2 hours, however in the 2007 edition of NFPA 13R I can't find where it states that. In section 6.4.2 it talks about testing the aboveground piping, but omits the underground supply and I can't find it any place else in the standard. It might be in the IFC, but I can't find it.
I thought there used to be a catch-all that stated that if it wasn't addessed in 13R you reverted to 13, but alas I can't find that either, figures huh?
I'm sure its right in front of me. Any ideas?
thanks
I thought there used to be a catch-all that stated that if it wasn't addessed in 13R you reverted to 13, but alas I can't find that either, figures huh?
I'm sure its right in front of me. Any ideas?
thanks





RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
And also appears you can use any pipe
And possibly tapped of the domestic.
A.5.2.1 This standard anticipates that the water supply for the system is in compliance with the governing plumbing code for the jurisdiction. It is intended that any pipe material or diameter permitted for multiple-family dwellings in the plumbing code and satisfying the hydraulic criteria of NFPA 13R is considered to be in compliance.
Any type of pipe or tube acceptable under the plumbing code for underground supply pipe shall be acceptable as underground supply for the fire sprinkler system when installed between the point of connection and the system riser.
also do not see nfpa 24 referenced
B.1.1 NFPA Publications. National Fire Protection Association, 1 Batterymarch Park, Quincy, MA 02169-7471.
NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems, 2007 edition.
NFPA 13D, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One- and Two-Family Dwellings and Manufactured Homes, 2007 edition.
NFPA 20, Standard for the Installation of Stationary Pumps for Fire Protection, 2007 edition.
NFPA 25, Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems, 2002 edition.
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
On the other hand if you are doing a subdivision for example and are running mains to all the buildings and boosting the pressure with fire pumps, reducing the domestic tie ins with PRV's, then I believe you might be required to test to 200psi or 50psi in excess of system pressure, whichever is greater.
Regards
Dave
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
Respectfully, one must still know where the "system" starts, and this isn't always clear. It may differ from contract to contract, jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and / or authority to authority. I have installed sprinkler systems of every type for over 20 years and have never tested an underground (which merely points to the matter of jurisdiction[s] in my case).
Regards
Dave
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
In our region the system starts 5' outside the exterior wall where connection to municipal supply and their pipe ends.
"Fire suppression is a failure in prevention"
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
Quite simply, underground piping may or may not be part of a given sprinkler system. 13 /10.10.2.2.1 will automatically eliminate the need for testing underground if there is a check valve of any sort that isolates the underground from the above ground system working pressure. I would hazard a reasonably experienced guess that this would apply to almost all municipal systems where there is a backflow preventer, fire pump, or alarm valve.
Regards
Dave
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
"Fire suppression is a failure in prevention"
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
It isn't to insure a leak proof system at 200 psi or we would be required to perform hydrostatic tests on systems less than 20 sprinklers where a fire depeartment connection is not required.
The reason for the hydro is to insure the sytem will stay together once the fire department pumper hooks to it.
I've seen some fire departments get wild on underground hydro's even with the check valve is located inside the building and FDC is on the wall. Regardless of what the city does the underground into the building will never see more than city water pressure.
Most cities only require a 100 psi test and even for a dedicated fire line this should be adequate except the book stays otherwise.
An overhead test, why do we do this? I do not believe the main purpose is to find leaks so much as to insure the system will not fail when the fire department hooks up to it. Leaks happen, we've all had leaks develop after the hydro but these are all taken care of... the owner will not allow otherwise.
IMHO we need not get wound up on the underground hydro unless the main could see fire department pumper connections.
But what we have to watch out for, regardless of who installs the line, is FLUSHING! This is even more important when a plumber installs a line and it is our policy we flush every underground, doesn't matter if another company does it I want to see it done for myself, prior to hooking our system up so THEIR ROCKS don't become OUR PROBLEM.
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
Can one of you deisgners or field persons head over to the other thread and give me some guidance regarding the "forward flow" testing on existing systems where there are no means for testing it in an existing arrangement....thanks!
"Fire suppression is a failure in prevention"
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
"Fire Suppression is a failure in prevention; thus It must have superior-most reliablity indeed"
Hope you are not offended!
Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
"Fire suppression is a failure in prevention"
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
It is my experience that AHJs do not allow exceptions for testing for anything greater than 20-heads and minor modifications. In fact we have had to pressure test existing systems that are 20 years old when the code official said "because I said so" and we weren't willing to risk their wrath and argue the point.
Many of the comments here were correct that my thoughts were based upon my experiences in the states where I have worked. In addition to the NFPA standards, there are underground testing requirements that are addressed in association pamphlets & standards, fire & building code amendments; the installation procedures published by the manufacturer may have a statement in it that recommends flushing and testing of underground mains per the AWWA standard. Provided it is a combination water main then the installation contractor may have to flush and test per the AWWA, UPC, or IPC requirements to meet the plumbing authority's codes. Three fire districts (we have over 90 districts/departments just on one side of the river of where I am based) have adopted codes that require a contractor installing a combination water main that supplies fire hydrants (public or private) and/or fire sprinklers to test that main per NFPA 24. The minimum test pressure to be placed on the potable main is 200 psi.
BTW-In most cases. I tend to feel that the definition of a fire sprinkler system would seem to be at the point that potable water drops out, regardless of who installs it.
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
I would rather go for experiencing the system subjected to real or almost real situation system pressure instead of a failure occurring in Actual Fire situations.
Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
"Fire suppression is a failure in prevention"
RE: NFPA 13R underground pressure testing
Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)