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Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?
11

Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
Hi There,

I have fairly recently become a sales engineer, for a industrial automation company. having sucessfully found this website usefull for technical issues in the past. I thought I would come back for some so called side issues as an engineer in my case "selling" as a profession. The products that my company deal with are the usual, servo/stepper motors, screw jacks, linear motors, through to linear bearing, worm drive slew rings. We have a broad range of clients from the defence force, mining, aerospace, theatre and factory automation. Obviously we make our money from advising our clients on our products. Before I became a sales engineer I had no experience and no "sales training" now my company would like me to get involved with some sales training. Assuming there are many sales engineers on this forum, I would like to ask two questions? 1) Is sales engineering not seen as a branch of engineering and hence does not exsist as a branch on this forum 2) Do you know of any usefull sales training that a sales engineer can make use of? as the boss needs an answer soon on a training course I would like to do. ;O) I'm struggling to find a course because I don't understand the so called skills I need apart from the obvious "knowing our product range very well". Thanks in advance for your help ;o)

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

What degree do you have?

- Steve

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
Mechanical Engineering why?

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Forgive me if I sounded condescending, it sounded from your first post that you were not an engineer.

I always thought the sales skills were something you were born with.  Training courses can hone and direct them, not create them.

- Steve

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
yeah thats why I am struggling to find adecent sales course they sound like "get rich quick scheme's". people buy from me because of good advise not something I can say or act out. I good humor and personality is about as far as it goes for me.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

HydroScope...no "sales engineering" is not a discipline of engineering.  It is a title often misused to imply that one has more subject knowledge and capability than is actually there.  You are an engineer so that is not the case here, but many who have no technical background whatsoever use the title to legitimize their job.

Some engineering may be necessary for customer applications, but that's different than "sales".  I agree with you that a good sense of humor and personality go a long way in this venture.

Good luck.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I agree with Ron, the engineering term is usually slapped on the end of a salesmen's title to make them sound more legitimate. Personally I would reject that whole sales engineering title; you are going to find more often than not most customers will automatically have their BS radar on when you say "I'm your sales engineer", even if everthing you say is true and technically sound. Not to say you can't still be an engineer and be in sales, but the title really pigeon holes you in most people's eyes. You'll almost have to work twice as hard to legitimize yourself when you add 'sales' to your title. I'm guilty of it too sometimes, but I've also known some real winners who were little more than bad impressions of used car salesmen who happened to tack on the title engineer after their name to sound professional.

...sorry, too much coffee this morning. Rant over. Seriously, good luck and try as much as you can to stress and show your technical merits as an engineer first and foremost, then say "oh, by the way you can buy this from me" after the fact!
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

4

Quote:

Assuming there are many sales engineers on this forum...
there may be .... some, but I'm sure they don't advertise it.

Quote:

Is sales engineering not seen as a branch of engineering and hence does not exsist as a branch on this forum
You have it in a nutshell. It is not. Sales is sales.

SomptingGuy has obviously had his coffee this morning and is feeling mellow.

He is really asking you if you are an engineer who has fallen on hard times or a salesman who works for a company that has simply labelled its salesmen as sales engineers.

You should recognise that the term "engineer" is jealously guarded as it denotes someone who has spent many years of hard study to achieve a professional status (quite what that is is often debated on this site as it varies from country to country).

Categories to mistrust include:
  • service engineers
  • sales engineers
  • engineering students (not to be confused with students in general, but still not fully formed humans and the are not welcomed here, especially those who don't read the rules)
  • computer software engineers (Bill Gates is often top of the list of those who are associated with computers, with or without the use of the word engineer, who are often denigrated here)
Many many "sales engineers", including those working for "industrial automation companies" are treated as no more than salesmen.

Salesmen belong to a sub species of the human race who sell things for a living.
The sort of things they sell are mostly time shares (holiday ownership) double glazing, conservatories, fitted kitchens, insurance, houses.
Yes, estate agents are salesmen too even though some maintain they belong to the genus that contains advertising agents and of course, lawyers, accountants and managers are yet another and far more inferior sub-species. Not sure where to put HR, probably in the genus that includes politicians.

Companies that manufacture "industrial automation products", for example, like to call their salesmen "sales engineers". Much as they would like to believe (or others to believe) that their salesmen are engineers, there just aren't enough real engineers around ready to go into sales and thus these companies simply employ salesmen and call them "engineers" and then find ways to manage them so they can sell engineered products (products that call for some engineering acumen).
The thing with salesmen is they can be taught "monkey see monkey do" methods of selling. How to sell from a catalogue (just show the pages) and they all have a routine, start with a chat gap, pretend to love the same football team as your client...etc etc.

Undoubtedly, there are some members here who are or have been salesmen in one form or another but they usually don't admit to it. Most often, if there is a "selling" question, they would probably say "I have this friend, well, an acquaintance really, or actually, he is an acquaintance of a friend of a friend of mine, and he was telling me about this problem he has...." except most often there isn't a selling question. Such questions are well described/camouflaged as "engineering questions".

So, what SomptingGuy would like to know is if we are to be dealing with a real engineer who has for some reason taken to selling, or a salesman who is a pretend engineer.

Now I'd say from your profile that you could pass as engineer turned salesman.
It happens.

Quote:

I'm struggling to find a course because I don't understand the so called skills I need apart from the obvious "knowing our product range very well".
So the first thing to recognise is that on this starship, engineers are all Vulcans i.e. logical and rational (and sane, presumably) while everyone else is human i.e. emotional, irrational (and insane) and that is important. (a weakness of Startrek is that "Scotty", the Chief Engineer, is human and very emotional).

Engineers make decisions based on logic, even when they a doing the family shopping at the supermarket.
Every one else, including buyers (possibly including engineering buyers who may or may not be engineers who suffered a similar misfortune and drifted out of real engineering) make emotional decisions.

You could do not worse than prepare by reading "Six things I know about engineers" here:
http://www.marketingtoday.com/marketing/toengine.htm

So if you are looking for a sales training course, you'd better pick out a couple. Most teach you about the management of your life as a salesman. How to divide up your territory, how to organise you travel plans. The Alfred Tack course is/was typical and features their trademark "I, We & You" Triangle (they even give you a button to wear...yuk.) which is to remind you of the priority of importance in your clients life. They'll tell you you must always talk in terms of what is important to the client and not what is important to you.

Actually, this is what most sales courses will teach you: how to manipulate emotional beings to buy what you are selling whether they really need it or not.

What you need is a sales training course that specialises in "sales engineers". You need this either as our main course or as an additional course.


Thinking about it, you are right that it is interesting that there is no "sales Engineer" forum. There is a language forum and I think engineers could justify a sales engineer forum since they are forever having their work interrupted by cold calling salesmen and have, on occassions, no recourse but to deal with salesmen.  




 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Oops! while writing (just after SomptingGuy's first)a deluge of replies poured in - a raw nerve touched?.
I came back because I forgot to soften my reply with a smiley.
here it is:
wink
 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I don't know about you guys, but I've seen used car salesmen engineer a lot of sales...  They can really manipulate those numbers. noevil  

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Some engineers like to think of themselves as somehow 'above the fray' of sales, but when you think about it, every consulting engineer is selling something....his/her self.  If the consultant does a poor job of presenting the product, they'll not be hired back.

Especially in the US, the use of the term 'engineer' is a muddy mess, where just about any idiot can call themselves an engineer.  In Canada, where I live, you risk getting yourself in major legal trouble if you call yourself a sales engineer, if you aren't a PEng.  Furthermore, if you're dealing with engineers as clients, and you try to call yourself one and clearly aren't, your credibility goes to zero.  

If you are a good sales engineer, you'll bring your technical skills and ability into the mix of sales ability.  Sometimes, in fact, you may find you talk your client out of buying, if the solution points that way.

If you're looking to develop and hone your selling skills, there are some good people who do those sorts of things. Look for good 'technical sales' type courses, they'll be of use.  Depending on your relationship with your company's suppliers, their people may have some good suggestions, as well.

In the end, you have to remember:  there is nothing wrong with earning a living in an ethical way, using your training and skills.   

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

If you feel strongly enough (= strongly enough to pay), you can start your own group here.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Quote:

Sometimes, in fact, you may find you talk your client out of buying, if the solution points that way.
Absolutely and so you should ... as an engineer... when in front of the client you work for him.
In the long run, honesty will pay off better than dishonesty and unlike double glazing, conservatory or encyclopaedia sales, you need to be let in the front door more than once.

I think some kind of "sales and engineers" forum might be a good idea, so long as it doesn't lend credence to the idea that a "sales engineer" is an engineer (even though some salesmen may be or may have been engineers.)

The real problem with sales engineers is that the companies they work for often don't give them a chance to be engineers. They have too many products in their brief case and too many markets and applications to sell to for them to develop any particular skills for any one product or market.

If you are an engineer turned salesman, the best thing to do is specialise and get really familiar with one group of products or one market or application. This can be a good way to get promoted into product specialist and get back some links to engineering - the best excuse for an engineer to be selling selling is to gain front line experience that will let you help develop newer and better products along with some ideas about sales and marketing.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I dislike the term sales engineer, but do not mind the term applications engineer.  At least with the term "applications" there are some connotations that you are looking to do some engineering work for your clients and providing them with a solution, rather than just bits and pieces of stuff.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

"Business development manager" is the name our sales people use.

- Steve

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I've known a few "business development managers" ...  they were not engineers, they were no good at sales, no good at business and useless at developing anything, the contrary in fact, and couldn't manage a piss-up in a brewery.

I did know one good one but he didn't last long.

A lot of these titles are just the usual management speak terms made up to dissociate perception from experience. A poor salesman/manager by any other name.....  

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I agree with ykee, if you really are an engineer, helping the customer to find a solution then a term like applications engineer is more appealing to most of us non sales guys.

What is it your boss wants you to learn, how to sell stuff?  Many of our vendors split the duties.  They have the sales guy (or actually more often girl, attractive girl at that, can't think why) and they have a technical person at their beck & call to answer the real questions while they wine, dine, flirt and do all the soft stuff.

Funny Sompting, that was very much like the title of a guy at my last place.  He was a reasonable nuts and bolts engineer (apprenticeship not degree) but a real wheeler & dealer when it came to the sales side.  I actually really liked him though, nice guy.  The guy doing the same job for another sector of the business was you typical idiot though.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I interviewed a few years back for a "Sales Engineer" position with Lincoln Electric.  About the only engineering I would have done would have been analyzing which golf clubs I wanted to use on which holes.   

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Oh yeah.  JMW, touched a raw nerve or what.  I usually enjoy your diatribes but even I couldn't bring myself to read all of thatwinky smile.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

2
HydroScope,
As you might expect from the above, we've all been inundated with high school drop-out morons with business cards calling themselves "Sales Engineer".  I personally think it is an offensive term.  If you are an Engineer that has budgetary responsibility for sales then you are a "Salesman".  If you are a Salesman with an Engineering degree then you are a ... "Salesman".  There is nothing in this world wrong with being a Salesman and if that is your job you should be proud of it and do it the best (and most ethically) that you can.  Bastardizing it by calling yourself a "Sales Engineer" feels really small and insecure.

By the way, if you're in the U.S. then unless you have a PE many states can present you with a citation and a fine if you have "Engineer" on your business card--many Engineers will call the board when they get your card to see if you are on the PE list, we can be vindictive jerks just like anyone.

I've know a bunch of Applications Engineers with responsibilities for supporting sales and these guys rarely make first contact, but for the most part they are real assets to both the client and the vendor.

The comment above that every Engineering Consultant is either a salesman or bankrupt is very true.  Every one of us is selling our services every day on every job, but the emphasis has to be on doing the job and the sales has to be pretty subtle.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
www.muleshoe-eng.com
Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts"  Patrick Moynihan

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I have worked with plenty of purchasing people that think they are engineers. tongue

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08; CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Really, most purchasing people I've worked with don't see any reason that Engineers even exist in this world.

David

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Take away computer, car, cell phone, TV and remote, lights, electric power from their house, the bridge they cross everyday from those purchasing people, and they will soon realize.

I think taking away TV remote alone would suffice!

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

If they could make the leap from being inconvenienced to "and Engineer designed this" then they wouldn't be in Purchasing.  Take away their TV remote and they'll be pretty sure that it is a Vendor screwing them.

David

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

The world is not fair to engineers..

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

HydroScope,

They are hard on you, aren't they?  In Australia, we prefer the term "technical representative", and one has to both be an engineer and know his stuff to be heard in a consultant's office.  Of course, if he springs for lunch, that is a different thing.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
WOW!! I never expected so many replies, I have really hit a nerve in the engineering field . . . . thankyou all for your replies you all made me feel so much better about my job believe it or not. . . . for the sake of defending myself as an engineer

I graduated from University of Technology, Sydney (UTS) 2005, Bachelor of Engineering, Mechanical. Sandwich/partime study, I.E. I worked the whole time(yes! engineering) . . . I am experienced in solid works 3D and autocad, after working a few years intital with fathers electrical contacting I am up to speed with electrical logic etc. and now feel I have stepped up the chain by working for a "mechatronics company". Sales engineer to me just means I'm the one whom physical see's and talks to the clients and figures out what they are "really" trying to acheive! and advises how to do this after consulting our companies "think tank" which is our suppliers mostly overseas and other "ALL" "qaulified engineers".

Our clients are people like "boeing aerostructures", All the mining corp's you poke a stick at that wont buy anything unless its specified by a 12inch thick document. The list goes on for the Defence force contractors. and the general industrial automation. We sign many NDA's and hence cannot mention those projects on here.

now for the final statement, thankyou for the link

tp://www.marketingtoday.com/marketing/toengine.htm

I read it and loved it! I heard my boss desrcibe my job as looking for "value adding projects" this discribes our company. I'm work for a VAR!! and we often sell to OEM!! we have lathes and milling machines, along with skilled welders etc. I.E. modifing otherwise of the shelf products for specific projects.

Keep up the replies, and links. I particularly liked the comment about them darn sales guys whom do cold calling, they do it me too!! and for your information cold calling on our clients is completely against our company policy all meeting need to be quantified!


I am still looking for a sales training course: I think my boss want me to do something with following issues, please reply if you have done any such thing?

Territory management
Call plans etc
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Phew! an engineer!

It sounds to me as if this isn't a typical management rich, skills poor, by-the-management-book global company... and if it was they'd be busy sending you down HR's well  trodden path with a standard training course.
Just a suspicion it may be the sort of company where you can write your own rules so long as you deliver the results.

Quote:

I heard my boss desrcibe my job as looking for "value adding projects" this discribes our company.

It makes sense with such an ambition that the man at the sharp end (you) has a lot of engineering skills and can recognise opportunities to do just that.

This is not a typical sales job, but your clients will have their own perceptions of what a sales engineer is and you may want to not drag that around with you.

I suggest you and our boss need a new job title for you which doesn't include sales in the title .... Regional Project Engineer? I'm sure the folks here can think up some alternatives.

I'm sure any standard sales training course will give you a lot of the routine management tips and it should help you recognise:
  • objections and how to manage them
  • buying signals- how to recognise them and what to do (close the sale, if you keep talking you may talk yourself out of the sale again)
  • how to close or more important, how to ask for the order
Er, many a salesperson doesn't remember any of these things from training. Salespersons are often idiots, as an engineer you can't afford to take on the whole sales mentality. So if you get a standard sales course, just take from it the bits you need. I've been on a couple but many years ago and I've also been on a few "demonstrators" where some company wanted to sell us a training package. Most seem to be a bit gimmicky and each has some kind of "signature" selling feature. Just go on one or two and sort the wheat from the chaff... if you don't like some of what they are telling you you can be sure your clients won't want you trying that on them.

One tip: forget that old saw "The customer is always right." Customers are rarely right and often come to the table with half-formed or incomplete ideas of what they want to do.

Knowledge is key and you have to listen and ask questions first and find out not just what the client thinks he wants to do but what he'd really like to do but didn't tell you. Collect the facts, question everything and be sure you understand. When clients tell you what they want that is often shaped by what they think can be done or it may be influenced by a false impression of costs.

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Quote:

Knowledge is key and you have to listen and ask questions first and find out not just what the client thinks he wants to do but what he'd really like to do but didn't tell you. Collect the facts, question everything and be sure you understand. When clients tell you what they want that is often shaped by what they think can be done or it may be influenced by a false impression of costs.

Too true.  Customers so often try to tell you what the solution should be rather than what the problem is.
 

- Steve

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

HydroScope's descripton of his duties reads to me like an Application Engineer.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

We all knew you were really an engineer Hydro, don't worry. It was just when you mentioned the "S" word that the allergic reaction triggered in most of us. I think JMW has a good idea about working on a different job title - minus the "sales" word. Agree 100% on the comment about some customers always wanting to tell you what the solution should be - I've experienced that sort of attitude many times during my field work.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Take up Dale Carnegie's sales course. Google for it.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Its probably wrong and cetainly not PC, but my experience to date is that anyone who who doesn't work in a retail establishment and has the prefix 'sales' to their job title is simply the spawn of beelzebub.  

Having said that, try getting hold of a book called Strategic Selling by Miller and Heimann: this gives some really useful insights into the psychology of making a sale from the seller to customer.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

The customer isn't always right in retail, let alone in a more technical field.

However, it often pays to make them think they're right, be it by convincing them to come round to your point of view or otherwise.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

The best Applications Engineers I've ever worked with have been able to convince me that their best ideas were really my ideas.  It is a tough skill that pays really great dividends.

David

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
"one tip: forget that old saw "The customer is always right." Customers are rarely right and often come to the table with half-formed or incomplete ideas of what they want to do."

Already experience this one many times! it's been my biggest learning experience since starting at this firm!.

Thanks again for the posts, when I understand the sales skills specific to engineering, I may just start a section on this forum ;o) to the delight of so many that have replied ;o).
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Well, it depends who the customers are!

If you are a "sales engineer", more often than not your clients will be the engineers who design and specify stuff for living. Trying to prove them wrong will not be very rewarding.

 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
I guess I was refering to the half formed ideas, incomplete ideas, that need more fine tuning, this is fine! why else would they contact us??, thats what engineering is all about!!. Concept throught to completion. I wasn't tring to say I was better than them (Actually never with cleintelle we hang with), you dont actually prove them wrong, you simply explain this is going to cost $XXXXXXXXX, if you want that spec. but if you do it this way it will cost $XXXX, saving $XXX. thats my job in a nut shell. ;o), most of the time they have alterative way of doing the same job themselves, i just do the leg work.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Hydro:

I can tell you one thing, you would not be visiting my office too many time, if you keep telling me how to save money on my specs. What I want is to meet my specs and let the Owner/User tell me that he cannot afford it.

 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

The real world for a salesman:
dealing with three worst case scenarios managers never understand:
  • losing a sale to an inferior product
  • losing a sale to a more expensive product
  • losing a sale to a more expensive inferior product
It also happens in engineering sales.
It isn't bad selling.
It isn't poor buying decisions.
There are more factors at work than price or spec. You need to find out what they are.


 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

@rbulsara,

My "customer isn't always right" scenario is probably specific to the business I work in (engineering software).  It's very rare for customers to request new features, they more often demand inappropriate extensions to existing features.

Customer: We need you to extend this existing feature in your software like this.  If you don't do it, we'll jump ship.

A feature request goes into the system, gets a life of its own and gets debated to death.  Commercial people pushing it, technical people resisting it because of its long-reaching side effects.

Ultimately someone asks the customer why they need this feature extended, what problem are they trying to solve, and gets a sensible answer: "We want to be able to simulate this situation".  There is usually a much cleaner and better solution than the one demanded.

- Steve

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

The most important thing is to LISTEN to the customer, followed by "gentle" prompting to get him to describe what functionality he needs or wants, and not what piece of hardware he thinks will do the job, followed by more LISTENING.

Your task is the solve your customer's problem, and, ideally, selling him a product that will do that job.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

All the above advice is good, but the absolute worst thing for a salesman, applications engineer, regional project engineer, or whatever is for his company to not back up his promises.  It happens all the time with both big and small companies, and when it happens, the business doesn't come back soon.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Quote (hokie66):

All the above advice is good, but the absolute worst thing for a salesman, applications engineer, regional project engineer, or whatever is for his company to not back up his promises.

I would add that, at least for my present company, this falls solely on that salesman, applications engineer, etc. This is where the engineering background really comes in handy. If your customer asks for an over-unity machine, and the salesman has no engineering background, he could promise them one for next Thursday... doesn't mean it's possible.

V

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

rbulsara, I've had customers ask for things that fundamentally defied known laws of physices for known materials.

I'm pretty sure they were wrong.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I was informed many moons ago that we are all salesmen. Explanation to the customer is a sales function. So is a cost reduction idea. Another is showing several viable alternatives. We are all salesmen.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

That's one of the laws of spacecraft design.

A bad idea, well presented, lives to fight another day. A good idea poorly presented dies.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

One thing you'll find, as a sales engineer, if you're doing your job properly, is that you'll spend time doing work for nothing, that consultants will then charge their customers to present.

It's part of how the game is played, and if you do it carefully and consistently, will let you be involved in the early parts of some projects.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

sorry but "Sales Engineering" is a mickey mouse title just like a janitor is called a "sanitation engineer".

SW2008 Office Pro SP4.0
Intel Core 2 Duo CPU
2.2GHz, 2.00GB RAM
QuadroFX 3700
SpacePilot

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

At least a sanitation engineer (janitor) will clean up a mess. Sales engineers often create them.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

I haven't had much involvement with "sales engineering" but my project manager was explaining to me two days ago the difference of being in an engineering world, selling products vs "selling projects". (I've just joined compressed air industry, now in my 5th month).

A salesperson selling products doesn't even have to understand much about how the product works; but a sales engineer trying to win a tender to supply a project or working system must have a working knowledge of every aspect within the system. So my understanding is a sales engineer (with a legit engineering degree) who can, with back of the envelopes calculation @ estimation, figure out how many compressors, dryers etc a customer would need should be recognized as an engineer as well.

In my presently small branch office comprising my manager, myself as an asst. project engineer and another regional saler manager.. I'd say that the sales manager has the most engineering knowledge. Of course, he thinks more like a salesperson compared to my manager and I, and he has a brash, slick air about him which makes me regard him as not one of the people who knows Joseph... but how much he knows about compressed air systems does make me feel sorry about the "Sales" tag in his job title...sometimes.

jo

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

3
Sales engineer, like project engineer, is a job title not a discipline. As this is a technical forum it is divided into disciplines rather than roles.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Well, I have had a problem lately with my sales.

Could someone Engineer a new one for me?


Thanks,
I'll need it by next week.

Charlie
www.facsco.com

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

There is no such recognized discipline as "sales engineering". However, many degreed engineers take positions as sales representatives or "application engineers". The best thing you can bring to the table in that role is a good grasp of engineering principles and practical applications of the product(s) that you are trying to sell. If you know your product well and you are very familiar with the practical applications of the product, selling it in the right places should come naturally to you if you are enthusiasic.

I am a master degreed EE and I work full time as an electrical engineer. However, I realized early on that I lacked that interpersonal touch that often can make the difference between success, failure and mediocrity in business.

Keep in mind that success in business is really all about relationships and about putting your customer's needs first. To cure my interpersonal issues and my tendency to be too analytical, what some people might call too nerdy, I forced myself to get involved in business outside of my regular job. I obtained an MBA degree and a real estate license. Now, I sell real estate part time and I have really learned how to work the interpersonal side of business. My customers don't know that I am a degree engineer until I tell them.

Unfortunately, engineers are stereotyped as anti-social and lacking in business acumen. This is not true but it is just a stereotype. We emphasize calculations and equipment over the human side of things.

I think the solution to your dilemma is to start emphasizing the human side of your nature but leverage that with your engineering knowledge. Most business people would rather deal with a great humanist who has average engineering skills rather than a great engineer who has average humanist skills.

When you get along easily with people, it is easy to sell things to them.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?


Which sounds better, sales engineer, salesman or Professional Engineer.  

If I was talking with someone at a industrial automation company, I would listen to the Professional engineer.  Not the other two.
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

The reason we have sales people is that they are needed and do make a valuable contribution to the success of the company as do marketing types and even, dare I say it, managers (some of them).

The question here is should salesmen be called sales engineers and should engineers ever become salesmen?

People will tell you:
Salesmen sell things the company doesn't make and often can't make;
Engineers make things people don't want or which are too expensive.

These both have elements of truth and it is why companies depend on balancing different disciplines and different skills. Do not neglect a salesman's ability to provide essential technical information.... you don't have to be an electronics expert to sell a TV....just don't expect him to be able to design you a better TV.

The main reason why salesmen are not engineers (no matter what the title) is because there aren't enough engineers to go round, at least, not who also have sales skills but then, you don't need them for all sales, just for the few special cases and that is when you need an engineer or a salesman with access to engineering skills.

Whenever you ask a salesman a difficult engineering question or get him pout of his depth he is not lost because the company provides for that, it provides a number of specialists to provide sales support. These guys may well be engineers or merely better salesmen with specialised knowledge. In a well run company if the sale needs engineering skills they will be provided.

If every sale requires them then the company will necessarily have to recruit more carefully to provide those extra skills but in most cases selling, even by sales engineers, doesn't require engineering skills.

In some cases, more often than you might imagine, successfully selling relies on the clients own skills. It is not unusual for a refinery engineer to know more about the salesman's products and applications (in the refinery) than the salesman... and in which case all the salesman has to do is take the order and address any non-technical issues. The smart salesman is one who knows when he is dealing with a client who knows more than he does.

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

You shouldn't be embarrassed to be in a sales role if you are an engineer. If your discipline was mechanical engineering before you took the sales job, you are still a mechanical engineer. The main difference is that your job responsibilities changed from product development or design engineering to sales. I know a lot of good engineers who have done this.

If I were you, my business card would say "Mechanical Engineer", not "Sales Engineer". You might want to use a subtitle of "Customer Applications" or "Sales Department". You are a degreed and experienced mechanical engineer who has decided to pursue a sales career. Many times, the sales staff has greater earning potential than the engineering staff because engineers work on a salaried basis whereas the sales staff can earn salary plus commissions.

 

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

Be careful of titles and think of the future. It might be easier to return to real engineering if you have a applications engineering title instead of a sales engineering title. The earlier posts show the reaction a resume for a sales engineer would get from most decision makers.

Good luck,

Does the boss also want you to take training in other sales skills like golf, drinking, travel, and fine dinning? :)

really, be thankful they do want you to get training.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

(OP)
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your input, I'm glad to say I'm obviously not that annoying Salesmen some of you have described. Since my last post I have been out on the road visiting customers whom where very receptive and appreiciative of my visit. I either sat down and had 30min convo's over their needs or my customer demonstrated there OEM product to me and described what improvements they where looking for.

since my last post i have also completed my sales training in the form a 3 day intensive course with AIM (Australian Institute of Management). I must admit it reminded me of studing english at high school, which incidently was the whole reason i started my direction toward engineering becuase I hate role playing and comprehension skills!! just give me fact and figures and leave me alone. I'll make my own judgement!! dont get me wrong I love meeting people particularly when they are in control of something I admire. But I dont just admire the obvious stuff like one of our client whom was in charge with the refurbishment of the deep space radio telescope largest in the southern hemisphere!! (we serviced the screw jacks at the very top for him ;o) it was great to go out and see it). but the guy down the road explaining to me how he managened to overcome the issues of manufacture his muesli bars, and what our company can do for him.

Yeah I think the advise to remove sales engineer and come up with applications engineering would be good that is what I feel my job is.

I'm glad to say the my company has now asked me to take a higher technical role on the power transmission side of things. So I think application engineer is definelty in my site ;O)

. . . . rbulsara to the comment .  . . .

I can tell you one thing, you would not be visiting my office too many time, if you keep telling me how to save money on my specs. What I want is to meet my specs and let the Owner/User tell me that he cannot afford it.

. . . . . . .

I can tell one thing too, you clientelle doesn't include any government funded departments whom aim for things that simply don't exsist in the market place, which is fine how else to do we move forward? but the only people who can make money out of this senario are the ones who are prepared to hang around and explain what is really possible for what price!! and take the baby steps involve hand in hand with the other contracts in getting there.

RE: Why is there no section on this forum for sales engineering?

congratulations on the promotion.  It also makes me glad to see users on this forum like yourself that keep composure even when challenged from multiple angles.

Best of luck in all you do my fair-footed friend.

Regards,

uGLay.

SW2008 Office Pro SP4.0
Intel Core 2 Duo CPU
2.2GHz, 2.00GB RAM
QuadroFX 3700
SpacePilot

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