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Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

(OP)
I have a question regarding allowable piping load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

INTERPRETATION OF PIP RESE003 ALLOWABLE PIPING LOADS ON ROTATING MACHINERY NOZZLES


For a Vital or Sensitive Rotating Machine the manufacturer recommended maximum allowable Forces on inlet nozzle are as follows

Fy = 1420 Lbs

Fz  =  1130 Lbs

Fx    =  570 Lbs


Maximum allowable Moments on inlet nozzle are as follows


My  =   1420 Ft-Lbs

Mz  =  1420  Ft- Lbs

Mx  =   2830 Ft-Lbs



Recently we replaced the Expansion Joint in the inlet of this machine and we are trying to interpret PIP RESE002 for maximum allowable forces and moments at the inlet nozzle of this machine.

As per PIP RESE002  ( 5.2.2  Which states that a maximum of 50% of the industry allowable nozzle loads shall be used during the piping layout and system design stage due to the difficulty in accurately predicting piping loads and the probability of installation errors)the maximum allowable nozzle load should be 50% at the design stage of the Piping Design in order to take care of difficulty in accurately predicting piping loads and probability of Installation errors, so if we are using a software like Caesar II for pipe stress analysis then we should use 50% of the forces and moments as "Input" to this program therefore
 The values of forces will be as follows

Fy  = 710 Lbs

Fz  =  565 Lbs

Fx    =  285 Lbs


And values of moments should be


My  =   710 Ft-Lbs

Mz  =  710  Ft- Lbs

Mx  =   1415 Ft-Lbs

The expansion joint should be designed based on these values

Now after the machine is installed in the field the allowable nozzle load is 100 %  ( PIP RESE002  5.2.6 Which states Actual total loading - final field loading of nozzles permitted up to 100% of the allowable nozzle load - as adjusted for MTBR achievement )as recommended by the machine manufacturer i.e.





Maximum allowable Forces on inlet nozzle are as follows

Fy  = 1420 Lbs

Fz  =  1130 Lbs

Fx    =  570 Lbs


Maximum allowable Moments on inlet nozzle are as follows


My  =   1420 Ft-Lbs

Mz  =  1420  Ft- Lbs

Mx  =   2830 Ft-Lbs



Let me know if this is the correct interpretation of PIP RESE002


Thanks a lot
 

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Maybe nobody uses PIP.  I don't and don't know anyone that does.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

What is PIP?  Is it a standard? a computer code?

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

"Process Industry Practices"

Like we don't have enough APIs, CFR, ASTMs, ASMEs, MMSs, RPs, GEEZs.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Thanks BigInch.  I take it that means it's a standard.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Informal.

I think I should write some up and sell them.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Commercial enterprise.  

Not recognized by ANSI.

What Big Inch said

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Suggest re-phrasing our 'Big-Inch' words for "Patricia" as

"The Good Engineering Practice(s)" adopted by many

Reputable Design, Engineering, Fabrication, Consultation Entities as their internal norms

paving way to help evolution of codes and standards.
 

Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Actually 786392, I quite got what both BigInch and JohnBreen were saying.  As it's not a standard, I won't bother trying to go into the rather extensive technical library services I have available to try and answer the OP's question.  Maybe someone from one of the "many
Reputable Design, Engineering, Fabrication, Consultation Entities" who have adopted these documents "as their internal norms" will be able to help.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

Dear vpl Hello/Good Evening,

I must say that your viewpoint also carries Value and Weightage indeed!

Since these 'isolated' although good practices (Most usually Business secret/least shared info) can not obtain a Consensus level to become

A Benchmark/ Frame of Reference for Code/standard.
 

Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

I'll have to give a better reply when i've got more time.  PIP practices are pretty common in my area - especially for Shell facilities.  Most of their EGGS incorporate or reference them as a baseline.

The simple answer is that your interpretation is completely wrong.  Those forces and moments are not inputs into Caesar, they are the values that you need to be checking your Caesar results against at the equipment flange.  PIP generally references other specs, like API-610, for the actual allowables.

If you have values on the drawings from the vendor, then those are your starting point.  Now, determination of the Vital/Essential needs to be driven by your client - in my experience with Shell, the 50% allowable systems are usually limited to very high dollar unspared compressors.  I don't usually see it for a normal spared pump scenario.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

I find them to be simply another public commercial "company standard".  Not really useful, unless your company, or client doesn't have a set of their own already and need something quick out of a box.

Enbridge sells their standards,
http://www.enbridgetechnology.com/products/engineering-standards.php
Those would be much better for a pipeline company.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles


All..

There have been other discussions about nozzle loads in these fora..

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=129476&page=1

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=75687

I think it is accurate to say that, aside from WRC 107/297 evaluations of pressure vessel nozzles, all else is a game between the equipment suppliers and the engineers/owners.

I also think that the PIP guidleines are not binding in the case desribed above.

Mr. John Breen has extensive experience and knowledge in this area and it would be very helpful to get his input

-MJC

   

RE: Allowable Piping Load on Rotating Machinery Nozzles

John checked in already.  Look up.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world's energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies) http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

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