PE registration
PE registration
(OP)
Does anyone know which state has the lowest standards for education requirements to qualify for PE license?
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RE: PE registration
Check the NCEES website....you might find more info.
If you get licensed in a state with lower standards, other states will typically not accept that licensing.
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
I disagree with licensing an individual as a Professional Engineer if they do not even have a related Bachelor's degree. An Associate's degree (or no degree) is perhaps appropriate for the licensing of Real Estate Agents but not for Professional Engineers! One has to wonder how the NCEES "Master's or Equivalent" stuff will actually (if ever) be implemented by various state PE Boards and legislatures in light of existing laws like this...
RE: PE registration
I know someone who was licensed as a PE in Ontario, Canada with a three year diploma. My understanding is that he took a lot of extra courses, so his training was equivalent to a degree, even if he did not have the piece of paper.
RE: PE registration
--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro
RE: PE registration
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: PE registration
They did license him, without the degree. The degree indicates a minimum level of knowledge. He demonstrated the minimum level of knowledge by some other means.
When I got certified as a technologist, I was asked for a transcript of my marks, so it was not just the diploma. My $50 PhD from Billy Bob and cuzzin Elmo's college would not have worked.
There was an article in Harper's magazine many years ago, about SAT testing in the USA. They pointed out that American high school graduates are much better at multiple choice tests than Europeans, because they do so many of them. The inaccuracy of IQ tests is well documented.
Someone wrote to the editor pointing out that the alternative is to systematically recruit people from ivy league schools and other good ol' boy networks, which winds up being even more elitist. A person from a working class family or some other undesirable cultural/racial minority at least has the chance to work hard and ace the test, or pass the course.
RE: PE registration
So assuming Sundale's post is correct, getting Colorado PE will only be good there, not necessarily elsewhere.
RE: PE registration
In the real world, you do not get credit for designing a building column that is 83% correct; these FE/PE/SE tests are not a good measurement of one's real world engineering skills. On the contrary, the FE/PE/SE tests are INDICATIVE of one's technical knowledge and they are also a fair measurement because everyone has to pass the same tests to get licensed.
Passing these FE, PE and perhaps SE tests simply formally demonstrates that you possess "entry level technical competence" in order to practice engineering and offer your expertise to the public as a consulting engineer, which requires licensure as a Professional Engineer. There are many very talented engineers who are not licensed PE's that work in exempt industries and there are also some really bad consulting engineers who managed to get licensed and somehow stay licensed...
Sucessfully passing FE/PE/SE tests (fortunately) cannot be seen a SUBSTITUTE for holding at least a Bachelor's degree in engineering or a related subject in most states in the USA. How "professional" is the engineering profession in the eyes of the public if non-degreed individuals can become licensed Professional Engineers? We engineers constantly whine about the lack of respect our professional gets in comparison to say doctors or lawyers. How would you feel if you learned that your doctor never actually graduated from eight years of medical school, but was able to successfully pass his/her medical board exams and get a medical licensed anyway? There is no way this scenario would be acceptable to the public and this is one reason why doctors, in general, do get more respect and pay than engineers.
As a structural engineer, I have the potential to hurt or kill FAR MORE people than any doctor has ever dreamed! This same statement would also potentially apply example, for example, to an unlicensed engineer who designs a faulty aircraft braking system...
RE: PE registration
What is the purpose of your last post? It has nothing to do with OP's question or anyone else's response.
RE: PE registration
I suspect many engineers that design aircraft & aircraft related components are unlicensed, since aerospace is generally an exempt industry. At least in CA there isn't even an 'aerospace/aeronautical' PE anyway.
The subject of not being an Engineer without bachelors &/or degree has been done to death a bunch of times on this site and really doesn't need doing again. My own views on the matter are well known and oft lamented facts of Eng-Tips history (to plagerize Cyrus the Virus).
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: PE registration
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
It's probabaly a difficult question to answer without researching all 50 states' requirements. I would HOPE they all had similar tests and standards. I would guess that the work experience credit standards may be different.
One question you may wish to ask is about reciprocity to other states. Which states readily accept PE licenses from other states? It would appear that you have 50 websites to searh for... Are there PE tests in Guam, Puerto Rico, and the US virgin Islands?
RE: PE registration
You need to visit that site to know more.
RE: PE registration
I've known many old-school engineers who were registered without degrees. They all had 20-30 years experience designing machines, and they all started as drafters. All would pass the current PE exams, because they were good engineers and they would prepare for the test.
RE: PE registration
The above is a completely misguided and uninformed statement.
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
If this needs to be expanded it should be taken to a different (dead horse) thread.
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
a) Product cannot be physically tested.
b) Product failure can cause numerous deaths.
c) Industry has poor system of check & balances.
If the industry has ALL of the above 3 conditions, licensing is required. If you don't have all 3, then licensing has been shown to be unnecessary in those industries.
RE: PE registration
The degree and test cannot screen out everyone who is incompetent, but it probably does screen out most of them. In my general experience, the engineers who had no problem passing the test are better engineers than the ones who took the test several times before passing. Of course there are exceptions.
The 4 year engineering degree and the PE means that you have done the minimum required to be an engineer (in civil, I don't want to start the PE discussion).
I have met very few good engineers who did not have a bachelor's and a PE, so the degree/license is an instance of something which is necessary, but not sufficient. This is coming from someone with only 5 years engineering experience, so take it with a grain of salt.
RE: PE registration
Just like getting a driving license does not make you a better driver but testifies that you do qualify. So ranting about how good A driver one is without a license does not get you too far with a police officer pulling him over.
After all you won't take an experienced medical assistant as a qualified doctor, would you? Although there can be a terrible doctor with medical degrees and registrations.
Engineers working in exempt industries are protected by their companies who do need to meet minimum standards for whatever they are making. There are inherent checks and balances there. While a lone PE can decide to design a electrical system for a building, and he alone may be responsible to check his own work and then own up to it. It is for those that a statutory registration and licensing is necessary like for any other professional practices.
Having said that ones with PEs to get paid more than non-PEs, all other things being equal. If you are in such field it pays to get licensed/registered.
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
Not quite. First you have to qualify to take the test. In Wisconsin, that means cataloging relevant experience and getting it approved by the board, getting references from other PE's, and passing the FE (only degreed engineers with adequate experience can skip the FE).
RE: PE registration
This is another example that will typically prevent comity with other states, particularly those that follow the NCEES criteria.
RE: PE registration
The Canadian system is, like the American, a mélange of the French & British systems. The French believe that University, and only University, can make one an engineer. They loosely have a PE-esque system, but it is much less rigorous and matters very little in day to day practice. The British have very stringent requirements, however do not actually require a degree whatsoever, of any kind. They just set the bar differently for different individuals. By law you also do not have to be licensed to practice in the UK, however in effect you do given that the firms both expect and enforce such systems, while many local authorities (ie: City Building Depts) require a licensed individual to sign off on works.
So, what do the French and British have to do with us colonials? Well, we adopted their systems, or variations thereof, and have slowly modified them to suit our purposes. In the US this has meant requiring BOTH the French style education requirements AND the British experience and performance. In Canada we to have BOTH systems, however they essentially stand as two separate paths to licensing, and just as for Drawoh's friend, a mixture of the two can often be used.
A cautionary note: The Canadian "by Examination" system is not for the faint of heart. You may not have to go to University to get your P.Eng, however you will be made to write a battery of exams (often in excess of fifteen) as well as show experience and professional development. The system is essentially your final exams for all fundamental subjects as well as design and analysis subjects. This includes everything from Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, through to Waste Water, Concrete I&II, Steel I&II, etc, etc. You show that you COULD have gotten a degree, had you bothered to go to University.
It is also very expensive, and can take years. I would never hesitate to hire or work with an engineer who was licensed in this way.
Regards,
YS, P.Eng (Ontario), MIPENZ
--> Included the licensings for this post just in case you wonder where I'm coming from in all of that).
B.Eng (Carleton)
Working in New Zealand, thinking of my snow covered home...
RE: PE registration
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: PE registration
Originally PEs were civil and/or land surveyors and they dealt with peoples land ( ie money ). The state initiated the PE system to protect peoples property.
It's been extended to protect the publics safety ( and in some case's their money in a round about way).
Manufacturing and industry is regulated by economics and lawyers.
RE: PE registration
Very stringent? The UK? Are you kidding? Just about anyone who can wipe their ass unaided can pretend to be an engineer in the UK. To achieve Chartership, once the Holy Grail of UK engineering, gets easier as the universities and professional bodies dumb down to maintain revenue from fees. I doubt the technical ability of the UK's professional engineers has ever been lower, and it worsens each year.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: PE registration
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: PE registration
I'm judging on the standard of people who are being awarded their C.Eng who I encounter day to day, week to week. There's certainly a lot of paperwork and diary-keeping involved in the latest 'UK-SPEC' application process (you probably remember the SARTOR system which preceded it) but the technical capability of those being churned out is definitely worsening in our industry. I would be reassured if I ever heard of someone failing to get their Chartership but I never seem to. In the case of my own professional body (the IEE), I don't think the merger with the electrical technician's professional body to create the new 'IET' did anything except increase membership revenue.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: PE registration
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: PE registration
The other problem is that in their more recent haste to be all things to all people they have gone for two year degree people and technicians in a big way. I suspect that is why the Civs and the Leccies refuse to join forces with the IMechE. I must confess, every year that $300 looks like worse value for money.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: PE registration
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: PE registration
RE: PE registration
-- MechEng2005
RE: PE registration