Not getting sucked into CAD
Not getting sucked into CAD
(OP)
Hello all;
My company had a recent round of layoffs. Since I started taking revit, and it is new for us, Im being pulled to help with discipline specific revit projects.
I don't mind, especially in this economy. I have two points I'd like to bounce off the forum.
1) How do I avoid being a CAD guy?
2) How can/will Revit change the way engineering is done?(shop drawing review, specifications, etc.)
My company had a recent round of layoffs. Since I started taking revit, and it is new for us, Im being pulled to help with discipline specific revit projects.
I don't mind, especially in this economy. I have two points I'd like to bounce off the forum.
1) How do I avoid being a CAD guy?
2) How can/will Revit change the way engineering is done?(shop drawing review, specifications, etc.)





RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08; CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Revit as it is now helps a lot with phsyical coordination - although for electricals, that is limited to larger conduits and cable trays. Revit also enables you to circuit and to create schedules - at least that is what it is doing for the electricals here.
Eventually, Revit will enable you to put in smart equipment with all the attributes (voltage, phase, horsepower, etc.) It will also enable you to put in manufactuer's data as well. That way the contractor - if he is able to access your model, will be able to pull out the information you put into it.
At least, that is what I have seen
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I know nothing about Revit. I am a mechanical guy. CAD software is attaching more and more intelligence to its files. Perhaps your world is different.
We mechies are transitioning from 2D CAD to 3D CAD. The important difference between 2D and 3D CAD software is that we are moving from a drafting tool to a design tool. You can closely supervise an AutoCAD operator.
With a 3D package like SolidWorks, the person sitting in front of the computer should be capable of making decisions on their own. If you are handing them sketches, you are making about 90% of the software non-functional. Placing parametric 3D software in the hands of a low-level, semi-skilled person is not a good idea.
I do not see a problem with using CAD. I do see a problem with someone trying to micro-manage a competent 3D CAD person.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I just make sure my boss thinkings my engineering skills are slightly better then my Drafting skills... problem solved.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Knowing CAD has given me an edge - especially in meetings with other engineers and engineering managers. I have an idea what can and cannot be easily done in the CAD software packages we currently have - and I know what our CAD technicians capabilities are with each.
It allows me to allocate resources for my projects correctly and efficiently. Also, with a CAD background, my CAD technicians have more respect for me because I've been "in the trenches" and understand the frustruations with dealing with engineers that do not understand what is involved in making "...just one little change..." or why it took so long to adjust a waterline 6 inches to the north.
Take the experience because you'll never know when it comes in handy.
Just make sure you express to your supervisor that you are still interested in (and quite capable of) fulfilling your role as an engineer.
Good luck.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Like you I much prefer engineering work but I have gotten quite proficient in both AutoCad and SolidWorks over the years (mostly self-taught). For me personally there have been two major benefits:
After the massive layoffs in aviation after 9/11, knowing CAD along with my engineering background helped me find an opportunity to get back to work fast. How much of it was due to the CAD versue engineering I cannot say but it expanded the openings for which I was qualified.
Like you also, I have a lot of experience in taking the real world in 3D and creating designs that someone can translate into 2D for mfg use. But being able to model on my own is a plus is when I want to create a sketch to explain a concept to someone who is not that skilled in interpreting 2D sketches. It is very handy to be able to whip out a 3d representation and show them on the screen (or print out an appropriate view) in 3D.
Of course you will want to balance this ability with making sure your boss remembers you are being a good team player but you are not implying you want to be a CAD person for the rest of your career. But I think you would gain some benefit from some CAD experience.
Anyway, my two cents. You know your boss and situation much better than I. Best of success with whatever course of action you choose.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I think Engineering qualifications and experience coupled with CAD skills is a bonus, so:
Not so much as becoming a CAD guy but I see it as increasing your current skill level as an Engineer.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I would also suggest getting any manufacturing experience/exposure you can. Learning first hand what makes something easy/cheap to manufacture or assemble will help you design with that in mind.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
That was back when we used pencils and paper, pens and vellum, T-squares and triangles, etc. As posted above, not many engineers were as accomplished as draftsmen like the professionals who bent over the boards all day long, but we could use the tools to whip out a basic sketch. And, we could understand what the draftsmen had to do in order to get what we designed drawn up.
What type of drafting (or should I say autocadding if that is a word) is taught to young engineers today. This thread surprises me a little.
rmw
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Maybe it's not necessary. Once you get past the learning curve, modern 3D CAD can be pretty fast.
It has to be. I don't have a staff of lead spreaders. It's just me and one good designer.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
There was a few weeks of orthogonal and T/F/R sketches but the major benefit (and goal?) of that was being able to interpret drawings rather than being proficient at creating them by hand. The labs were 3D CAD tutorials and there was a group project to create a 3D model. Most of the people who didn't use CAD beyond this class, as in a student project or similar, were pretty useless at it when graduating.
As for high school, we did play around in AutoCAD and make a house floor plan but I don't think it was of any real value. Any drawing was done in art class...
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I did have a machine design class that the professor would require us to model some stuff for, but for the most part it was very limited.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
About 4 labs in 1st year of university using 'autosketch', peak of witch was some basic 'descriptive geometry', also one homework assignment on shaft fit tolerances. The next year they switched to Autocad, which was great for anyone needing to do some drawings for their project but who'd only learnt autosketch.
Basically I knew almost nothing about engineering drawing and learnt it on the job mostly from some experienced design engineers and old drafters.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
My technologist training was thirty years ago. I had a semester of "Engineering Graphics", and a semester doing tool design projects. The drafting training was not rigorous.
How useful is CAD training to a high school student? I am thinking back on all the stuff I trained on or learned ten years ago and how much of it I use now. Very little. I can run Linux on my home computers because I took a system administration course of Sun Solaris. I have never had a chance to play with Ansys on the job. I do not use AutoLISP or plain LISP for anything, and I do not do anything serious with AutoCAD anymore. I was very good with PordWerfect, but I have no access to it anymore. I did learn GD&T, and to code HTML with a text editor.
What kids in school really need is to be literate enough to be able to re-train themselves. Any practical skills teaching should be done because it is intellectually broadening. For example, computer programming teaches organization and logic. These are useful, even though the language they learned will be obsolete by the time they grow up.
A major problem with CAD is that people do not understand that it is a tool. We hire tool operators instead of people who know how to do the actual work. As I noted above, 3D CAD is a design tool, and should be in the hands of a qualified designer. A kid who learns SolidWorks in grade 10 definitely is a tool operator.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I graduated 2 years ago, I had one class with basic hand drawing/material selection/ how to read drawings.
One class with ACAD, Linux, SUN, EXCEL, and matlab.
One class of just 3D.
I completely agree with drawoh and KENAT, CAD is a tool only as good as the user. We have a draftsman which neglects basic stuff, then hides behind the "I am not an engineer..." excuse which drives me nuts.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
BUT I will say that my CAD skills (2D and 3D) are starting to prove very valuable. I'm getting to be a part of some projects just because I get the gist structurally and can produce models quickly. Just make sure that your skills as an engineer are equally valuable, if not more, than your drafting skills to advoid getting sucked into CAD.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
I agree with everybody on the point that CAD is important, and that we shouldn't shirk away from it. Technical drawing is essential. I started drafting in a architectural office that wouldn't go to CAD, and our technical drawing teacher was from ye olde school of technical drafting so we did it all by hand. I went on to take more cad courses for the heck of it, and got through college part time and working in various technical jobs full time. Currently, I'm learning and starting to use REVIT.
Anyway, what I feared is turning into reality. I'm taking revit in a regular semester class at nights at a community college, and answering a lot of questions for it at work. But my time ain't billable for it. People are starting to horde work and try to cross disciplines as well to get more hours and look more productive(scarry situation). I don't want to be reduced to a cad jockey, nor do I want to lose my billable hours.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
hmm, I'm a CAD jockey and i don't want to be reduced to a bill of material clerk, powerpoint presenter or meeting attendee.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
The people who read to you the text of the powerpoint slides seem to be very important, for some reason.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
- When someone comes to your desk, and says "can you help me with this model/etc, I can't get it to work" have the proper response. Something like this typically works:
"I am currently working on this XYZ project, and it is important to finish on time. I can help you once it reaches (xyz stage)." Modeling questions never last multiple days unless they are serious.
If they are serious, and you are really the only one at the company that can fix it, then after a few days the managers will know about it. Then you will be the person who fixes problems; that is never a bad thing in a bad economy.
In my mind ALL design engineers should know the CAD that the company uses, even companies that have designers (we don't). If someone comes to you for help, it is not because you are the expert, but because they are deficient.
Charles Culp
Design Engineer - Solidworks User
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Tosh.
It can have advantages but at the same time, I'm pretty sure our 'lead engineer's time is better spent coming up with technical solutions and the like and leaving it to my designer colleague or occasionally me to refine & capture/communicate in CAD.
Now having some appreciation for what the CAD can do and/or being willing to listen to us when we tell them what it can do is more significant.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
if you dont know cad software packages then you better have programming skills, otherwise your no good to anyone in my line of work as a controls engineer.
I have had almost 20 years experience in cad and then went into programming plcs during that same time. When I am out in the field trying to get a project complete by debugging my software, I wish I would of stayed in the cad world.
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
That said I prefer Cad and engineering separate because I'm a drafter and need a job. It's more time consuming in certain aspects but maybe keeping the different disciplines separate provides more specific available expertise due to the potential to concentrate effort.
Engineers are already spread over many different aspects, should one more, sometimes quite complicated aspect, be added to that workload?
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
We had the opportunity to do a Beta test on our test engine (before the CAD dwgs would be through the approval process) so I had to get a prototype made at a machine shop. I sent the same sketches over that I had sent to CAD. I expected them to come back with some questions that would have helped me to give more complete or better instructions to the CAD operators (not located in this country.)
The machine shop sent back a completed piece for our test from my sketches - no questions asked. Just what I wanted.
One of the kid engineers, a sharp engineer at that, very CAD savvy saw my sketches and seemed impressed. I guess he hadn't been taught how to draw like that.
I still can't do CAD but I work closely with those that can and direct them every day.
What seems to me to be lacking today is the designer; a person in my previous experience who while not an engineer, knew the machine and how to draw stuff like no engineer could and so that the draftspersons could then detail.
I am having to be the engineer and the designer. The CAD folks do the drafting and modeling.
rmw
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
My buddy who is starting an architecture firm took a Revit class. From his description it sounded as though Civil 3D and Revit are meant to work together as one. I really do think sooner than later a computer drafter will be like a pencil drafter.
I love watching the old school guys take pencil and straight edges and design. And then watch them knock it out in the computer.
CDG, Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://www.CivilDevelopmentGroup.com
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
sigh.
So, here I am. Actually, I rather enjoy it. I continue to make my current salary but I log in my hours for Drafting time - so my budgets doesn't take the hit. The work is tangible and satisfying as I can see my progress as I complete tasks. And my Boss is in awe as she doesn't understand (nor can she utilize) any CAD software. And I am earning the respect of the CAD designers as I'm the only engineer that understands their daily job functions (and frustrations) and - as such - am "in the trenches" with them.
Happy days!
RE: Not getting sucked into CAD
Best regards
Simon NX4.0.4.2 MP10 - TCEng 9.1.3.6.c - (NX6.0.3.6 MP2 native)
www.jcb.com
Life shouldn't be measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of times when it's taken away...