×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Closure rings and Communicating chambers

Closure rings and Communicating chambers

Closure rings and Communicating chambers

(OP)
Can anyone tell why I can't use Appendix IX of ASME VIII-I to establish the thickness for side bars of a bustle style configuration similar to a Type-I jacket.
 
Also, can I use the weld sizing (Z) for the bustle to bar attachment and (Y) for bar to shell proper.Is the use of a single fillet(Z)weld for bustle to bar prohibited merely because it's a communicating chamber and not a true jacket?

Note: Fluids or gases are communicating directly with shell proper via bustle inlets.  
 

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

Cluain, I am not familiar with the "bustle" terminology, however I have in the past used Apx 9 to design elements of a distributor belt or so-called vapor belt for heat exchangers, which are really just communicating chambers. I think, even though these are not separate chambers as a jacket is, there is useful guidance in Apx 9, as other portions of the Code are not especially helpful. I don't quite understand why the single fillets seem to be allowed in Apx 9, but I would avoid them.

I would probably get a buy-in from my AI before proceeding too far with this.

Regards,

Mike

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

(OP)
Thanks Mike,

My apologies for not using ASME terminology; I should have referred to the bustle as the outer jacket wall (tj) and the side bars as the closure members (tc). For clarity I am looking at Fig 9-5 skt (d-1).

The AI believes that I should be using UG34 to establish the closure member bar thickness in conjunction with Fig 13.2 skt (a) thru (f) for the attachment of the outer jacket wall.

Since there is nothing specific in VIII-I in relation to the application of this chamber (other than communicating chambers ;) I thought I was using good engineering practice (U-2G) by utilizing Appendix IX.

The mere fact that there is no pressure differential or that the chambers are not independent has no real relevance when approaching it from pressure retention point of view.

I am reluctant to concede the points (which the AI makes) that the side bars (closure bars) are more indicative of flat heads and that a single fillet is unacceptable for the attachment of the outer jacket wall.

It is very clear to me that UG 34 will boot me into UG 39 which in turn will boot me into Appendix 14, not to mention that an integral attachment is required.

I too have reservations about using a single fillet (Z) for the outer jacket attachment; however, I trust that ASME would have eliminated this attachment configuration had they felt it unsafe to use.

Again, thanks you for the response!
 

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

Cluain, I understand your dilemma. However in the end it probably is more important what your AI thinks than what you or I think:)

Good luck.

Mike

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

APPENDIx 9 IS CORRECT for jackets.

attachment weld sizes, attachment types, thickness of closure bars, need to be exactly like the pictures shown and calculated per appendix 9 using only sect VIII div 1 material

IF IT'S A COMUNICATING CHAMBER...WELL THEN THAT'S ANOTHER SET OF RULES.

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

(OP)
AND WHAT PREY TELL, ARE THOSE RULES?

I don't accept that the closure bar is a flat head!!!
 

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

i have no idea what a bustle bar is or how it is different than a jacket closure bar.  whether it's inside outside or where it is.  if it's not a jacket and you're using attachment detail that does not meet app 9 details...well that should be explanation enough.

sorry can't be more help

maybe a state/jurisdiction guy could help you out

RE: Closure rings and Communicating chambers

(OP)
VesselFab,

I thought I clarified the terminology in my first response to Mike.

Again, it' similar to Type 1 style jacket, in fact it's identical in everyway to a jacket except holes are in the "shell proper" to allow gases or fluids to communicate with the interior shell. And, for the record, it meets all design requirements plus attachment details as prescribed per Appendix IX.

Respectfully, neither State guy nor AI can help here. Only an official ASME interpretation can help.

Regards..
 

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources