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Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives
4

Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
Can anybody suggest alternative metals/alloys with properties in terms of hardness, impact resistance, stiffness, abrasion resistance, etc. in the range of tungsten and tungsten carbide?

I'm specifically looking for a metal or alloy here, not a ceramic or composite. Cost is not a major issue. Lower density would be nice.

Molybdenum runs a bit soft for my tastes.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Do you mean metallic tungsten or the composite of tungsten carbide particles embedded in a cobalt matrix (typically called tungsten carbide but the real name is cemented carbides)?  If it is the former, you may be able to find a nickel or molybdenum based alloy that is similar.  If it is the latter, then no, there is not an alternative system that is comparable.  However, there are many different grades and producers of cemented carbides so you should be able to find alternatives that provide similar performance to an existing product.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

You might consider 98M2 Stellite as a replacement for tungsten carbide. It is available as casting and powder metal product. Like tungsten carbide, fabrication will involve grinding; brazing is used to join it to a substrate.
Deloro Stellite is one source.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Co based alloys,can meet your requirements and they are expensive too!

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." — Thomas Edison
_____________________________________
 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
Thanks for the replies, and sorry for any lack of clarity here.

I want a solid metal/alloy here, NOT a composite, cemented carbide, coating, plating, or other. I know people will want to mention these options, and they are interesting, but not what I'm asking.

I like the hardness of tungsten and of tungsten carbide even more. The goal is extreme abrasion resistance. I like the impact handling of W, although most metals are acceptable here, save for really brittle things like pure chromium. The stiffness in W is also great.

My biggest complaint about W/WC is the density. I dislike the high melting point of W/WC, although this can be worked around. I would also love a lower cost, but so would everybody! I'm prepared to pay plenty more for an improvement over W if it can be had.

I looked 98M2 Stellite and it certainly looks like it might have compelling properties. A quick compositional review suggests that it's got a little of many metals I was thinking about... boron, carbon, tungsten, vanadium, molybdenum, manganese, chromium.

Any ideas on the potential for hot isostatic pressing of 98M2 Stellite powder?

Other notes on other alloys?

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Stoody makes a huge number of alloys and is very creative in how they do it.   Try    

Louw De Jong
Stoody Deloro Stellite
604 463-2140
ldejong@stellite.com

Not sure if it fits but cermets have a much lower density than tungsten carbide.

Have you tried some of the new nano-materials and similar?

Tom   
 

Thomas J. Walz
Carbide Processors, Inc.
www.carbideprocessors.com

Good engineering starts with a Grainger Catalog.    

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

If you want a solid alloy with high hardness, then steel seems like your best best.  You can harden steels to > 700 HV, although this is less than the > 1200 HV for cemented carbides.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

You can make an alloy,having 15% Cr,3% Mo,6% Va,1.5%W 2.5%C . This can be hardened and is extremely wear resistant.

Perhaps Cory too might have some such chemistry on his mind.

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." — Thomas Edison
_____________________________________
 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
I am trying to reach some people at Deloro Stellite, but I have yet to speak with the right technical contact.

One of the applications for this material is hot isostatic pressing. I may even be interested in producing a metal-ceramic matrix or cermet, should the metal alone be unsuitable. However, this arena gets very complex very quickly, so I am trying to just focus on the metal aspect of things.

Ideally, I would like a solid metal which I can use at very low thicknesses without becoming too brittle. I would rather have a dense-but-thin material than a light-but-thick material, hence my focusing on the metal aspect of things. However, the stiffness and impact resistance are the primary limitations in making a thin material, and will only be worked out through real-world testing.

I also could have my guys with the electric arc furnace whip up any range of alloys for me on a custom basis, although it would be nice to work with something off the shelf to get started.

I would love to hear about any alloys not from Deloro Stellite if anybody would care to share. I am also curious about nanomaterials.  

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

You mention brittleness - any metal with hardness > 600 HV is going to be brittle.

 

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
I would not consider tungsten to be brittle, given my application. Comparatively, I would consider pure chromium to be brittle.

Brittleness is hopelessly subjective, but despite my best efforts, I find my needs are not precisely quantified by any regularly measured value.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

blueandwhiteg3,
if you can let us know more about the application that you have on mind,perhaps you could evince better response. As I see the whole range of wear resist materials have been presented. Maybe it does not meet your requirements.  

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." — Thomas Edison
_____________________________________
 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

I dont think that WC is available as a single material, in that case it would be considered a ceramic. the only times I've ever seen, heard, or experienced the use of WC it has been in a composite with nickel, cobalt, or other metal.

 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
I have identified a few different alloys with melting points and hardnesses of interest. I am still gathering data on abrasion resistance and toughness.

My application for this material would involve hot isostatic pressing and a few other processes.

Here is a working list of alloys:

Deloro Stellite Stellite 98M2 - 2327° F liquidus, 8.63 g/cm^3, 58 Rockwell C hardness.
Deloro Stellite Deloro 50 - 1945° F liquidus, 8.14 g/cm^3, up to 58 Rockwell C hardness
Deloro Stellite Delcrome 93 - 2219° F, 7.77 g/cm^3, 58-65 hardness
Deloro Stellite Nucalloy 453 - 2260° F, 8.10 g/cm^3, 43 hardness
Deloro Stellite Nucalloy 488 - 2260° F, 8.10 g/cm^3, 45 hardness
Deloro Stellite Nucalloy 488V - 2230° F, 8.10 g/cm^3, 45 hardness

The Deloro 50 is interesting, as it has a low melting point, yet excellent hardness.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
The guys at Deloro Stellite are proving great to work with. My applications are rather new for them too, but they're working hard to put together the data and identify which alloy(s) I should be trying out.

Do they have any serious competitors I should be checking out?

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

The closest alternative to cemented carbides you can get, when it comes to the resistance to abrasive wear, is one of super high-speed steels such as, say, CPM Rex 121 or CPM Rex 86.  These grades contain a relatively high volume fraction of very hard vanadium-rich MC primary carbides and tungsten-molybdenum-rich M6C primary carbides. The machining and toughness characteristics of super high-speed steels are superior to those of cemented carbides, and the price is also lower (approximately one order of magnitude).

Alojz Kajinic, Ph.D.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
This is really interesting, I love it when people add this kind of data. I had not been aware of specific grades of very hard steels. I have been aiming to use materials with a liquidus of 2330° F or less.

One of my concerns about a steel is corrosion. While I'm not expecting any acids or anything, moisture is a possibility, perhaps even extremely brief salt water splash exposure. This would not be persistent, but I would hate to have a carbon steel rusting on me here.

I will look into them further and see what I can find. Meanwhile, Deloro Stellite also has several very promising options, and I am arranging to test a small range of them from very hard to less-hard-but-more-tough.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
Alojz, I'm a little curious... if these materials are so much better than cemented carbides, why are cemented carbides still being widely used?

I also wanted to add that I am are obviously very interested in cost, but the size, volume, value, etc. here does mean that limiting cost is not the primary objective.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives


The reason cemented carbides are still widely used is because they have better wear resistance and higher stiffness.  calphad said that the super HSS are superior in machinability and toughness, not the other two parameters.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
Yes, that's what I suspected... but it was not stated, thus I kind of had to ask more generally. There are often subtle, non-obvious differences in materials...

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

TVP is absolutely right with his comments.  No single alloy in the world has it all. With every single alloy there is always a balancing act between a number of competing and mutually exclusive properties and characteristics. Depending on a particular application, as well as cost restrains, we chose an alloy that is optimal for the application at hand.

Alojz Kajinic, Ph.D.

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Something no one has mentioned is the Manganese Steels, in this case Manganal, for whatever the end product is. These steels are readily available and can be easily repaired by welding.

http://www.stulzsicklessteel.com/home/products.cfm

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

unclesyd,star to you for this gentle reminder. How could I betray this material which provided me all the business once.

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." — Thomas Edison
_____________________________________
 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

(OP)
This is really interesting, although I would really like to see If I can get into alloys with a liquidus of 2330° F or less.
 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Look at the bottom of the page in the referenced link in my last post. It concerns TC embedded hammers. Depending on the configuration of your part this might also be a way to approach the problem.

There are others that embed TC into weld metal on a very small scale.
 

RE: Tungsten & Tungsten Carbide Alternatives

Still shooting in the dark, not enough information is given to open up more avenues of approaching the problem.

Combining the postings by TVP and calphad and if the component is amenable one might like to look at the Ferro-Tic line of TiC materials.

http://www.ferro-tic.com/grade.html

There are other possibilities available if a little more information was available.

 

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