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Liability of designing dorm lofted beds
7

Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
I've been approached by a local university to create loft bed plans that they can provide to new students. I won't be making the beds themselves, just the plans.

What liability will I incur by doing this? How long will the liability last? How can I limit the liability?

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

All of it.  Forever.  You can't.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Don't do it???

Or get some fancy lawyer to rig up some sort of release...which probably won't hold water....

However - as long as the beds exist - you will probably shoulder some responsibilty...even if some crazy kid takes one apart and it falls on him!!

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

I believe that states have something called a "statue of repose", which limits engineering liability in some way. But I'm not sure of the exact details, so perhaps you could contact the state board about this?

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Just the hassle of lawasuit - guilty or not is just not worth it.  You will spend a ton of money just to prove your innocence.!!!!

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Incorporate.  Design.  Collect.  Disincorporate.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

2
Design them correctly and do not worry.  (use a factor of five for impact loading during orgies).

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Is is just a plan showin location or a design of the bed? Why would a mech engineer design a bed?

It is a furniture. Let an architect specify it. If it is a built in place structure, involve a structrual engineer.

 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Plans? Really?  Are students nowadays that pathetic?  

I recall going to the local Home Depot, or whatever it was, and buying 6 2x4s and bolts, borrowing the tools, and having at it.  Worked for me.   

TTFN

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RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Whoa, it's been THAT long... I think it was 6, but might have been 7 or 8, depending on how far off the floor the bottom of the bed frame was.

TTFN

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RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
The plan would be the design of a bed.

Why would a mechanical engineer not design it? You have fasteners, stringers, spars, and associated hardware. Sure, non-engineers could design it as well. But it seems like a fair project for me to take on.

(Some universities actually require a PE stamp on the plans in order to show that it's not a homemade job. But that's not the case at my school.)
 
I actually design an awesome one when I was home one summer...basically this would be rehash of the one I designed years ago.

I honestly can't think of any significant liability that I'd be taking on. It's not like you'll get permenantly injured, maimed, or killed by your bed. If you break a leg or something, well, that's what health insurance is for.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Is there a manual for that safety factor of five?


 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

cedar:
If it seems fine to you, no point asking the question. Go right ahead! That however does not protect you from any liability. Even not stamping a drawing does not absolve you from liability. Ask your insurance carrier, if you have a professional liability insurance.

It is one thing to build something for yourself and its altogether different matter to design for others amd that too for commercial/institutional use.

There is a reason, the university is asking someone professional to "design" it.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

The best you can do is adequately insure yourself.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds


Tell 'em to go to IKEA.  Can't beat the price.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

The point is to elevate BOTH beds to get more floorspace.  The one I had was an A-frame, with the beds on the outside of the A.  This put both beds in the air, and freed up enough floorspace for our 2 desks and chairs under the beds, allowing us to have a couch and still have open floorspace.

TTFN

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RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Quote (cedarbluffranch):

I honestly can't think of any significant liability that I'd be taking on. It's not like you'll get permenantly injured, maimed, or killed by your bed. If you break a leg or something, well, that's what health insurance is for.
This alone tells me you're not ready to take on the project.  You don't think there's a chance for harm other than a broken leg?  You think a broken leg, caused by your bed's design, is strictly the domain of the student's medical insurance?  You are quite misguided.

What if the top bunk, holding student A at a hefty 300 pounds, decides to squeeze his equally hefty girlfriend into bed for a late-night squeeze?  Bed collapses, killing student B below.  The fact that the "dumb" student exceeded the clearly labeled max weight of 500 pounds is irrelevant... you're going to get sued.

What if a slat breaks, causing a student to fall and break his neck?  Think the parents will shrug it off and say "go to the infirmary"?  No, they'll likely drag you into court for making a substandard design.  It doesn't matter that he was sharing the bed with 2 kegs of beer and he slipped on the ice.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Refer to existing codes and standards.

www.eagle.org/
American Bureau of Shipping

...

GUIDE FOR
CREW HABITABILITY ON
OFFSHORE INSTALLATIONS
...

Accommodations Criteria – Berthing
Aisles
47 Aisle widths in sleeping areas are:
 at least 610 mm (24 in), between a single berth and the nearest obstruction T
 at least 915 mm (36 in), between facing berths S,R
 at least 1065 mm (42 in), when joining two or more aisles. T
Berths
48 + The lower berth in a tier is at least 300 mm (12 in) above the deck. ILO 92
49 + The upper berth is placed approximately midway between the bottom of the lower berth and the lower side of the deck head beams.
ILO 92
50 Head clearance above each berth is at least 810 mm (32 in). AN
51 Berth inside dimensions are at least 2020 mm (80 in) by 965 mm (38 in). AB
52 + The framework and lee-board of a berth is of approved material, hard, smooth and not likely to corrode or to harbor vermin.
ILO 92
53 + Berths constructed from tubular frames are completely sealed and without perforations which would give access to vermin.

...
 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

BEFORE a manufacturer of furniture starts to sell it, their lawyers look at at, compare it to the current furniture standards (do you know of any? you should or you shouildn't even think of doing this!), cogitate on it and make adjustments and then maybe approve it for design and testing.

This is furniture.  The University should have a protocol for deciding on furniture, running it past several offices, etc, to include their attorneys. Why could they not just find a qualified manufacturer to provide them with a design or a product? Believe me, there are very few original ideas, it's been done before!  

Will they pay for your legal bills in a lawsuit?

This is dangerous for you to do.  Multiply it by the number of beds, numbers of semesters, etc.

There is something wrong with the University if this is how they want to do it (go to a known NONEXPERT in furniture) and ask you to do it.

Your liability and theirs is tremendous.

Don't do it.


Let us know what you decide.

Good luck,
Dermott

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
So I did some searching last night.

Montana State University provides plans to students. A former student by the name of Kent Molin drew this design for them and it's freely available on the Internet. http://www.montana.edu/reslife/loftPlans.php

So if this university had someone draw plans for them why is it different for me to do it for my customer?

The university will not be building the lofts. They'll simply provide them for students to build.

I have a hard time believing that creating AutoCAD sketches for a loft is beyond my skill as an engineer. You can't get much easier than that.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Cedar:

No one is challanging or doubting your abilities. The question you asked, if you do the plans/design do you have the liability. The answer is Yes.

People have insurances, not because they are not qualified, but to protect against liabilities that can arise regardless of you are at fault or not.

 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
Actually, I never asked if I did incur liability. The question I asked was what liability do I incur (as in tort liability, contract liability, etc, and specifically how do I incur this liabiilty), how long does it last, and how can I limit it.

I understand that a person incurs some liability when we do anything. But I also understand that there are some things that we can do that are reasonable and wise and others that incur a huge potential amount of liability.

 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

I give up!
Good Luck.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
Don't give up!

What I'm trying to ascertain from the various discussion on liability is to figure out exactly how and what I become liable for in the example of creating engineering drawings of dorm furniture. You can see examples all over the Internet by non-engineers, so either those people don't feel they incur liability or they never thought of it.

I understand that there is liability in what I do but if engineers let liability always stop them from being an engineer, we wouldn't be where we are today.

So my question goes a bit deeper than the obvious question of do I become liable. Ok, so I take on some liability but how signficant is it and what kinds of things can I do to reduce it?

What others have said is to choose clients carefully and pick low risk projects. I'm trying to decide if this is a low risk or high risk project. On one hand, I'd be providing the drawings to an unknown number of people which would increase risk. On the other hand, college students don't normally  hire lawyers to file lawsuits so the risk of a lawsuit is pretty slim unless severe (permenant) injury or death occured.

I think what it goes back is tort liability, which requires a three prong test:

- Do I have a duty to care to design something properly?
- Did I break that duty?
- Did that duty cause injury to the other person?

Hmmm, I'll have to think things over.

By the way, for those of you who recommend insurance, please name an insurance carrier that you use and tell me how much your insurance costs.

 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

The OP should review the wisdom of taking this project on in terms of a "risk to reward" analysis.  The fee one could expect to garner to design a wood bed is fairly minimal, I would expect.  On the contrary, the liability risk is tremendous in terms of constructing one design many times. Is there enough fee to observe the construction to verify that the drunk and/or stoned freshmen actually build this bed according to the plans?

I personally would not take such a project unless I had "indemnity" and "waiver to sue" clauses in my contract with the university.  They may or may not be willing to to this.  Talking with the client "up front" about your liability concerns is always good.  Some (potential) clients understand why you asking for such contractual protection and others view your engineering services as their insurance policy.

Unless the OP is desperate for engineering work, or this bed design project is a stepping stone to potentially getting more (real) engineering work from the university, I would respectfully suggest that politely declining the project is perhaps a valid answer to the question unless "indemnity" and "waiver to sue" contractual protection is obtained from the client.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

A past employer was once involved in a lawsuit where an employee of a past customer lost a hand.

When I say past customer I mean that they bought a piece of equipment some 80 years before the accident.

The piece of equipment had long since been retired and dismantled.

However, various parts of the retired were used by the past customer to construct or maintain other equipment.  One such part was used on a machine build "in house" by the past customer.  This machine was grossly deficient in design - having no safety guards at all.  This is why the poor guy lost his hand.

My employer got sucked into the lawsuit because the part that was used was a large cast gear - that just happened to have my employer's company name cast into it.

Ultimately my employer was absolved of any liability.  However significant costs were incurred for legal counsel, the need to research the history of the part, having managers travel to testify, etc.

The point?

You can be sued for anything at any time by anybody.

I'll write that again.  You can be sued for anything at any time by anybody.

You may be absolved of liability, or the suit may be thrown out, but you will incur costs and grief.

You can protect yourself with appropriate insurance, but you will need to do so forever.

It just doesn't seem worth it for the likely minimal fee for this job.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

IMO, these are questions best answered by a lawyer.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
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RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

While I agree that it is somewhat pathetic that students need plans to build these beds, that is somewhat off topic (althougth, like IRStuff, I got some wood and just "had at it" and got it done. Luckily, I quickly made friends with some upper classmen and was able to get the wood from the dumpster diving they had done when previous students had been moving out 3 months earlier. :)  )

I would disagree with cedarbluffranch's statement:

"Some universities actually require a PE stamp on the plans in order to show that it's not a homemade job."

Do you really think the university cares if it's a homemade job? I'm sure that in the history of the university they have seen more crazy and dangerous loft beds than I can imagine. And if a student is looking or uses plans to design the bed, do you think they are doing it because they want assurance of safety, or because it's easier? Maybe the university would like to supply a bed design to decrease the crazy and dangerous beds, but I think a design with some common sense would suffice. It wouldn't require a PE.

I think that the reason that some universities require a PE stamp is to limit the university's liability, by passing it on to the PE. That gives me some gut-feel for how much liability is involved (more than the university wants). Do you want that liability? And, if I am correct, and that is the university's motivation, then they will probably not be receptive to attempts to contractually limit your liability.

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you! I hope it works out for you. I didn't want this post to sound to much like "If you do this, you are wrong," though I suspect it might. I truly do wish you the best. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in and give my gut feelings for consderation.

-- MechEng2005

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

cedarbluffranch,

   What about homebuilt aircraft?  Somebody provides plans for an airplane.  Some other guy buys the plans and the materials and puts the thing together, sort of following the plans.  The builder's surviving relatives sue the designer.  

   This must have happened somewhere.

   IKEA has elevated beds with desks underneath.  These are well designed for people not yet of drinking size and age.

               JHG

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

okay, I think you may be a troll but here goes:

go to:
http://overlawyered.com/2006/10/tis-better-to-have-loft-and-lost/

and:
http://overlawyered.com/2006/08/nj-court-no-warning-that-one-mioght-fall-out-of-loft-bed-required/

and:
http://overlawyered.com/2004/signed-a-waiver-doesnt-matter/

and:
http://www.stellaawards.com/caselog2.html

the point is not winning, my question, of all those college students, some or their parents will sue, do you have enough money for the lawyers YOU will need?

Just because you take diligent care and do it right, doesn't mean you won't be sued and they may win.

You have got to tell us which college so we can follow the lawsuits!

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Ikea has loft beds as well.  Why can't the school do something like this?  Here's my example dorm room.



And here's the Ikea bed frame.  You have to have enough head space, though.



diarmud, I've got the same sneaking suspicion, but I'm not terribly busy.  I've designed custom kitchens around a basic Ikea set up.  Some people hate the place, but it serves a market sector, no doubt.




 

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

A star for MechEng2005 for clearly smelling out the BS from the University.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
Uh, there's actually a number of universities that don't allow you to have homemade lofts. You can speculate as to why. Engineers might say liability. Others might say to help the local business. Others may try to say to hurt the local lumber industry. I suppose technically requiring a PE-approved design doesn't prevent someone from building their own loft, but I won't speculate further as to that universities motives.

Some schools that don't allow homemade lofts:
http://www.slu.edu/services/residence/housing/loftkit.html

www.wmich.edu/housing/info/loft.html

http://www.unbf.ca/housing/reslife/rmassign/bedapplication.htm

http://www4.uwm.edu/housing/facilities_services/housing_services.cfm

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

casseopeia,

   Up here in Toronto Ontario, the IKEA stores attache a piece of plexiglass blocking access to the steps of their various elevated beds.  There is typically a notice on them stating that access is blocked for safety purposes.  

   If it is not safe to climb these things at the store, are you sure you want students climbing them at the dorm?  :)

               JHG

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds


That's just some CYA crap to keep kids from playing on them and adult shoppers from, well, getting frisky in them.  I'm certain the plexiglas is not included in the box when you buy it.  I've actually been looking at these for my SO's daughter.  Underneath she can have a toybox for now (she's 4) and then a desk later for when she's doing homework.  Or, her step sister can sleep in her room on a roll-away when she visits.

For the dorm, you could even devise an attachment of the IKEA bed frame to the walls of the room for added stability and theft prevention.  But I'm not about to provide full working drawings and specifications for that.  I'm cheap, but not that cheap!


 

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Thanks Monkeydog!

cedarbluffranch:
I wasn't aware of these restrictions, but I'm not surprised. Nor can I say I was surprised to find out that the universities listed are offering to sell or rent loft units. By selling/renting the units at the prices listed (minimum $100 year rental), there is certainly a motivation for forcing students to use the university's units. The free market (i.e. students can build their own) would never allow the university to charge this much. I bet if they offered the rental units AND allowed students to build their own loft, the demand for rentals would plummet. The fact that some of the universities won't even let students have store bought models (i.e. Ikea) strengthens my feeling that this is just another place that universities found to weasel money out of students.

However, maybe the cost of the rental is specifically for trying to cover costs incurred due to the liability and legal trouble if somebody does get hurt. In this case, I think you need to charge a pretty-penny for the design of the unit. I figure the university gets at least 5 years out of a rental unit, at $100 per year. That means they get $500 per unit. Subtract the cost of materials, maybe $50. You end up with $450 per unit profit. Besides being a motivator for the policy, it could also be to cover liability. Can you charge enough for your design (however much is actually incurred) to cover for $450 per unit built? Plus, you may be more at risk since you are providing only the design. Some of the universities are setting-up/installing the rentals, and can ensure that it is done properly (bolts all tight, ect). You don't have that option.

For the record, I am somewhat bitter at university dormatory policies since when I went to college and they had what I felt (and still do feel) were unfair policies, including that students were required to live in the dorms for the first 2 years (with exclusions for older, married, or students with parents living within a certain radius). However, the average student was basically forced to live in the dorms so that they did not have to compete with other housing options. I definately would have been happier and have smaller loans if not for these policies.

-- MechEng2005

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

I think all of those plans take up too much room, and do not allow for maximum floor / vertical space usage.  We had concrete floors / ceilings.  We made ours from 4x4 lumber.  Four Posts, two cross members. Some threaded rod, washers and nuts to pressure fit it in place, and some chain, hooks, bolts and lag bolts to attach the metal frame to the structure. We just had to be sure we increased the pressure as the wood initially dried.

This allowed a couch and big entertainment system, as well as the built in desks we had at one end of the room. Since my roommate and I were both tall, we had the beds about 18-24 inches from the ceiling to allow for max headroom. Just climb from the arm of the couch to the top of the dresser to the bed.

Just another post that doesnt touch on the question asked ;)

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

I think an engineer's liability on designing a bed is not nearly the same as a furniture company designing it, building it, and selling it.  Part of the pricing of the bed is the cost of defending lawsuits, knowing there will be claims, settlements, and possibly a few large awards.  You distribute that risk over the millions you will manufacture and hte cost is pretty small.  These companies already industrial exemptions from licensing so the engineer in the dark corner designing it is shielded from the potential liability.

If I was asked to design it, my fee would be pretty high, would include a written contract that I work with both my attorney and my insurance company, and neither my name or company name would appear on the final design.  The school would own the design.  You may not be totally protected from all lawsuits but at least the kids would have to sue the school and the school in turn sue you.

  

Don Phillips
http://worthingtonengineering.com

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Quote (DonPhillips):

You may not be totally protected from all lawsuits but at least the kids would have to sue the school and the school in turn sue you.
Because it's so much better to have an institution that already spends millions on lawyers every year attacking you than a single individual who may spend a couple $100k, right? winky smile

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
Don,

Thanks for your post. That was first post on this thread that actually answered my question and gave me an idea on how to consider this project.

I appreciate your sincere posting.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Before designing furniture that could be mass produced and be used for many years by many, often irresponsible students, it might be good for an engineer to check with his or her professional liability insurance carrier.  Mine frowns on designing products that will be used by many without my involvement.  Frowning means either no insurance or higher premiums.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

cedarbluffranch...you can incur significant liability from this unless you cover it well contractually and through your performance.  A few examples...

Most beds are not designed by engineers; however, since you are a licensed engineer you are held to a higher standard of care than Joe Blow furniture designer.  You now have a license on the line, whereas he has nothing but his assets.  If you design a bed that has the same performance capabity as Joe Blow's bed and yours fails and causes injury or property damage, you now have a potential negligence claim against you....Joe doesn't have a negligence standard to meet so no big deal to him.

Next, if the plan is to be re-used, how long will this be done?  It sounds like you will give up ownership of the design to the university, but you'll retain the liability for the concept and its implementation.  That's not good contractually and you should avoid giving up ownership of your intellectual property.  If you do so, you MUST make the design and specifications so tight that you will assure yourself that if followed, a failure would be almost impossible..can you do that?

The statute of repose for design is usually between 10 and 15 years in the states that address this.  If your state doesn't have one...you're on the hook "forever".

You can limit your liability with good contract terms and conditions, but contracts are not foolproof and often get interpreted in ways you cannot imagine!

What are the standards you'll meet for the design?  Are they established and nationally accepted?  Do they actually exist?

There's nothing wrong with innovation and thinking outside the box; however, be aware that to do so opens you up to greater criticism and liability, often with your only recourse being through a tightly written contract, which unfortunately, you are not likely to get from a public agency.   

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

I'm sorry, but I WISH I had something this easy as a young PE.  Yes, there is liability...just for the record, you will ALWAYS have liability on your designs...that's part of the whole "professional registration".

How do you limit it?  Place notes on the drawing to limit the longevity of the design or the loading.  "Renew wooden parts annually".  "Check fastener tightness monthly".  "Insure wood grain is vertical".  No one ever does these things and it reduces the chance that you will be seriously prosecutable.  I'm not saying design everything with a loophole, but this is a golden opportunity with minimal potential repercussions.

As a PE, you have to take some liability, so make sure your design is robust and your notes reduce your liability to a risk that you are willing to take and comfortable that no one will get killed or injured.  If you DON'T do it, someone less qualified might.  To me, this is about as un-dangerous as it gets.

As for the kit planes...FAA approved, not PE (even DER's don't get the pleasure of completely approving an original TC, for those familiar with aero acronyms).

Garland E. Borowski, PE
Engineering Manager
Star Aviation

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

(OP)
Gbor, I agree that dorm lofts are low risk items. I've never heard in my college years of anyone getting injured from them and they are very straight forward design. And the designs are simple enough and common that it would be easy to prove whether a design was defective or not.

I work as a Flight Test Engineer so I'm certainly familiar with much higher risk work. Flying experimental aircraft at the boundary envelope is high risking, creating a simple drawing of a loft is not.
 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Your current job definitely sounds MUCH riskier.  I've only been in the aviation industry for a few years.  I owned an engineering firm prior to that, so to answer your original questions:

What liability to you incur?  You are responsible for the design.  While the fabrication is important, if anything ever happens to one of these beds, the lawyers will come after you.  You will have to show that the design was not used in the manner that you intended or that it wasn't maintained in a manner that you clearly specified.

How long is this liability?  For as long as the design is used.  You can specify terms in the contract with the university that limit how long they can distribute the design without returning for your approval.  For instance, in the contract, "The University has sole rights to this design indefinitely, but may only distribute drawings for 5 years without having the design reevaluated by me."  You would really need a lawyer to get the right language.

How do you limit the liability?  The statement above or any in my previous post will limit your prosecutability, but limiting your liability isn't really possible without assigning it to the University.  Again, in the contract, "The University is solely responsible for insuring proper fabrication and product usage in accordance with these plans and accepts full responsibility for any failures due to improper fabrication or abuse."  This at least makes it clear that you are not responsible for anything other than the design.  You could also put a maximum exposure clause:  "I am only responsible up to the cost of the design effort" (this basically means that you will refund their money if anything happens).

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

What could possibly go wrong you ask?

from: http://www.stellaawards.com/caselog2.html

"College student falls out of bed and is slightly injured. He sues the bed manufacturer, and wins because the bed did not have a warning label."

Welcome to America, the land where common sense and personal responsibility are meaningless because everything bad that happens to you can be blamed on somebody else, and if you find a sleazy enough lawyer, you can turn your misfortune into huge profits!

 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

spongebob - read on in the case notes...the judge who heard the appeal quashed the verdict and his reasoning (from my memory of the original TSA post) was quite astounding for court in the USA...he said that "the hazard was obvious" and so didn't need warning signs.

As others have said this doesn't stop the OP from being dragged through court in the first place but it's a light at the end of the tunnel rather than someone with a torch bringing you more (insert appropriate expletive)...

Cheers HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

I'll guarantee a lawyer to defend you will be more than your fee.

I've been to court, putting in a contract a clause that limits your exposure to your works liability and/or your fee doesn't always work.

You should be consulting with a lawyer, not a bunch of engineers who think they know the law (get one who has worked on product liability).



 

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Why would the OP need to go to someone to tell him the answer that he already knows?  

And the fact that there's documented evidence that the OP doesn't know what design or safety standards to use shouldn't be a hindrance, either.

TTFN

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RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Liability goes forever, I have actually heard of cases where the liability extended the estate of a deceased engineer when the proximate cause of the failure was lack of maintenance by the owner. It sounds like the university is too cheap to do things the right way. Keep in mind that you can't just simply put out some drawings as a licensed engineer. Everything you produce has to have your seal on it. I am working on a case right now where a licensed PE, working for a manufacturer, is being sued personally for some BS that has yet to be proven. College students may not be as likely to sue but mommy and daddy will. They sue the university because their "contractual" relationship is with the institution. The U sues you and/or their insurance company goes after you through "subrogation." Remember how Duke treated the lacrosse team. There ain't no loyalty. RUN, don't walk away from this one.  

Greg Robinson

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

For the people wondering why students need plans to build bunk beds...my old university required all bunk beds to be built from a university approved design.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

Greg...fortunately, liability does not run forever in most states.  Most of them have a statute of repose which limits claims to a maximum time period.  In my home state it is 10 years.  It was 15 years until last year.

It varies from state-to-state, but generally is an attempt to limit the term of exposure of architects, engineers, and contractors.

RE: Liability of designing dorm lofted beds

You might have some fun with this. Run a contest among the eng students. Others may want to jump in, too. Get the senior engrs to justify the designs structurally. Let the CE Eng dept faculty endorse and check the winning designs and calcs. Let the school pay a small stipend for the winning 1st, 2nd, and 3rd designs. The students gain competitive experience, the faculty discovers talent, the students have alternative designs to choose, and designers gain experience with possibly 'green' matls [e.g. recycled lumber, no paint]. All this activity beats lesser pursuits.

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