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supplying water uphill
5

supplying water uphill

supplying water uphill

(OP)
how to supply water up a small hill from a pond NEAR the bottom, without the use of manpower, animal power, wind power, solar power, electricity or a heat engine?

RE: supplying water uphill


Search for Hydraulic Ram, they're pretty old fashioned, very simple and some are still woring after 150 years!

Trevor Clarke. (R & D) Scientific Instruments.Somerset. UK

SW2007x64 SP3.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 4Gb Ram ATI FireGL V7100 Driver: 8.323.0.0
SW2009x32 SP1.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 2Gb Ram NVIDIA Quadro FX 500 Driver: 6.14.11.7751
 

RE: supplying water uphill

If you pipe the water to the top, then back to the bottom of the hill, *below* the pond, you can form a siphon.  You could tap some water from the siphon (but not all) at the top of the hill.

Don
Kansas City

RE: supplying water uphill


Better make that over 200 years!

http://www.greenandcarter.com/
 

Trevor Clarke. (R & D) Scientific Instruments.Somerset. UK

SW2007x64 SP3.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 4Gb Ram ATI FireGL V7100 Driver: 8.323.0.0
SW2009x32 SP1.0 Pentium P4 3.6Ghz, 2Gb Ram NVIDIA Quadro FX 500 Driver: 6.14.11.7751
 

RE: supplying water uphill

Dam the stream, install a weir and construct a small pond towards the top of the hill.
Is this a trick question?  Are you going to tell us the answer??  Is this related to some real life application?

RE: supplying water uphill

I'm guessing homework assignment ... but an interesting question nonetheless.

The accentuation in the "pond NEAR the bottom" statement, suggests the solution is to create a siphon (per eromlignod's post).

cheers

RE: supplying water uphill

Come on, guys!  How would you tap water from the siphon at the top?  The pressure in the pipe at the top would be lower than atmospheric.  Any "tap" opened in the pipe would suck in air.  Also, the maximum elevation difference between the top of the hill and the siphon outlet is going to be about 10m or 33ft.   

-handleman, CSWP (The new, easy test)

RE: supplying water uphill

Ask a woman to carry it up in buckets: she's not manpower and my wife would certainly object if she was classed as animal power!

RE: supplying water uphill

Excuse my earlier jocular post BUT more seriously, if the pond is not at the bottom of the hill then how is it getting its water in the first place:

1.  A stream can't be filling it unless the stream was flowing down the hill. Therefore dam the stream at the point higher up where you want the water.

or

2. If the steam is flowing down the hill then where is it coming from - perhaps there's already a rainwater pond at the top

or

3. Or is the water being piped under pressure part way up the hill to the pond?

My guess is also homework or we might have more information: height of hill, height of pond from the bottom, where is the water coming from, how much water is to be moved in what time? etc etc

RE: supplying water uphill

See hydraulic ram thread in the pump engineering forum.

Put the ram pump in the stream feeding the pond.  You will pump water from the stream, not really the pond.

Ted

RE: supplying water uphill

There is going to be a lot of wasted water for the hydraulic ram to work.  This is not good engineering.

RE: supplying water uphill

Hydraulic rams require flowing water to work, they will not pump from a reservoir or pond.

RE: supplying water uphill

It depends on what you mean by wasted water.  Water that was going to go downstream without doing any work anyway?  Doesn't seem like much of a waste.

RE: supplying water uphill

chicopee,
That depends entirely on what resources are available.  If water is already running into and out of the pond due to some natural occurrence (like a spring or stream) at a rate that is sufficient to drive the ram and supply the required amount of water to the top of the hill then it is not "wasted".  You are only considering water usage of the device and not the entire system.  This is not good engineering.

-handleman, CSWP (The new, easy test)

RE: supplying water uphill

Assuming there is a flow of water into the pond:
Consider a watermill driving a piston type pump.
Watermills were used I believe to water the Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Ross

RE: supplying water uphill

With emphasis on "near the bottom", I would say the intent is to use the hydraulic ram, using water flow from the pond TO the bottom as the driving force.  Or waterwheel/ pump or equivalent arrangements could do the same thing.

RE: supplying water uphill

Your ram should be a the lowest possible elevation. The feed water can come from anywhere. You should put the ram below the dam to get more head for powering the ram so you can pump more water or at get water a higher head.

At a fishing camp we used for years there is a hydraulic ram that made and installed by my grandfather around 1900 and is still in use today. The only repair has been to replace a broken valve around 1940. It pumps water to a wooden tank about 250 ft above it.   

RE: supplying water uphill

Without knowing how the dam is supplied with water and the amount of inflow(if any) there is no sensible answer.

  

RE: supplying water uphill

2
The pond is NEAR the bottom. Dig an outlet put a hydraulic ram in it and the riddle is satisfied.

Alternatively wait for a giant meteor to hit the pond and splash some water up the hill.

Or exploit quantum mechanics. Cool the water to a low temperature. This means you know the velocity to some arbitrary accuracy. The Heisenberg Uncertainity principle then tells you what the probability of one of those water molecules actually being on top of the hill is, since the more accurately you know how fast it is going, the less accurately you know where it is.




 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: supplying water uphill

"The pond is NEAR the bottom. Dig an outlet put a hydraulic ram in it and the riddle is satisfied"

Provided that the inflow is sufficient to drive the hydraulic ram for sufficient time to pump water to the top.  

RE: supplying water uphill

Wait for rain.

RE: supplying water uphill

You could always heat the water using nuclear materials and the steam would quite happily go uphill. Just a matter of isolation, piping and condensation on the top of the hill.  

RE: supplying water uphill

Cover the pond with a polythene sheet which continues as a tunnel to the hill top where a condenser will revert the moist air back to water,  or is this classed as solar heat .
Corrosionman
 

RE: supplying water uphill

wow, I wish I'd seen that site back when I had a pond to keep full, hundreds of feet above a creek.   

RE: supplying water uphill

There is no Hill

RE: supplying water uphill

Use a water wheel. The water goes down from near the bottom to the bottom, turning the wheel.

RE: supplying water uphill

"elecbradley (Electrical)" must have drowned in the pond- seems that he is missing in action.

RE: supplying water uphill

If indeed there is inflow/outflow for the pond, a hydraulic ram, as suggested by SincoTC, is a good solution. Their energy efficiencies run almost 50% and they really do last almost forever. Typical results may be found here
http://www.riferam.com/rams/deliver.htm

RE: supplying water uphill

Read the question, it doesn't explicitly say you have to do it perpetually etc.  As such for the question as given it doesn't matter if you empty the pond in the process.

You have a body of water (qty unspecified) part way up a hill.

You want to get some water (qty unspecified) part way up a hill.

A hydraulic Ram and appropriate piping/channels would appear to be up to the job as stated.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: supplying water uphill

As we haven't heard anything from the OP - who knows what is required, if anything other than a college homework problem.

RE: supplying water uphill

Hot water goes on the left, payday is on Friday, and s*$t won't flow uphill...plumbing 101

RE: supplying water uphill

Ron, also, don't bite your fingernails:)

Mike

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