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Use of X by

Use of X by

Use of X by

(OP)
When using basic dimensions, is the referenced dimension still box. ie 5X [5.00] = ( [15.00] ).

RE: Use of X by

jjrobert,

   ASME Y14.5M-1994 shows the quantity inside the basic dimension box on all the figures I just examined.  If you are using SolidWorks, the quantity will wind up outside the basic box.  I can still see that the dimension is basic.

   Anything inside brackets, as per Figure 1-54 is a reference dimension, and should not be boxed.  Your [5.00] above is your real dimension.  Your calculation of the total is a perfect illustration of why the figure in brackets is for reference only.  

   I screw up too sometimes.  smile

                        JHG

RE: Use of X by

I agree with drawoh, except I would have referred to them as parenthesis, since you used brackets to denote basic dimensions.
The form you are asking about is generally used to denote non-cumulative dimensions, and basic dimensions are non-cumulative by default, so all you really need is 5X [5.00] or [5X 5.00] (either of which is permissable per the standard , para 1.9.5).
If you do use that form, the = should also be in the parenthesis.

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - Hunter S. Thompson
 

RE: Use of X by

As drawoh says, 14.5 seems to show the X in the basic box.  

However, there is nothing in there I'm aware of that says having out of the box is explicitly wrong so I will allow it on drawings I check.

In our CAD system you have to dig down into the settings to get it to be in the box but I've now set our default settings to be that way.

As regards your example, I agree with drawoh that I don't believe the 15 should be boxed.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Use of X by

Well spotted ewh

Quote (ASME Y14.5M-1994):

1.9.5 Repetative Features or Dimensions ...Where used with a basic dimension, the X may be placed either inside or outside the basic dimension frame.  See Figs 4-26 and 5-14.

So I was a little off track.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Use of X by

ewh,

   Okay, parentheses it is.  :)

                      JHG

RE: Use of X by

I guess "round brackets" would be acceptablewinky smile

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - Hunter S. Thompson
 

RE: Use of X by

They are both wrong for different reasons.  

The bottom one is I believe more correct but it should be X not x.  Also, while not explicitly stated as far as I can see, the figures show the = in the parenthesis.

5X [1.000](=5.000)

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Use of X by

KENAT,

You are correct that X is uppercase:
5X [1.000].

But, here in the US, [] is usually meant to be the secondary units, () is meant as reference dim's.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Use of X by

5 times 5 used to be 25.  Has Y14.5 changed it that much?

Once that is addressed you might consider using 'EQUALLY SPACED' to indicate the desired locations.

RE: Use of X by

Chris,

I think that we are only using brackets to denote basic dimensions in this thread.

It should be "X", not "x".  All upper case, except for certain abreviations such as mm.  And yes, the = should be in parenthesis, because it makes no real sense outside of them.  A dimension such as "= 5.00" makes little sense, so you shouldn't see "(5X 1.00)= 5.00" either.

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - Hunter S. Thompson
 

RE: Use of X by

ringster,

   As I pointed out, above, there is an excellent reason why the total value is a reference dimension.

   The term EQUALLY SPACED does not appear anywhere in ASME Y14.5M-1994.  I think it is clearer and safer to provide an explicit count of features.  

                       JHG

RE: Use of X by

Per the original post 5X 5 = 15.  It used to be 25 as I recall.  

One of the tips on Tec-Ease used 'Equally Spaced" on a basic locating dimension.  That is a little 'worrysome' IMHO>

RE: Use of X by

ringster, the OP made a typo that drawoh addressed in the first response.  Get over it, the basic question is valid and picking on a little error like this does a disservice to the good information given by ewh above.

Also EQUALLY SPACED has been flogged to death in previous threads, why bring it up here.  Equally spaced is not shown in 14.5 that I'm aware of but arguably may have use for bolt circles.  However, its use on linear dimensions as in the OP is more problematic and I believe the approach shown in 14.5 is better.

As to your comment about tec-ease, while I believe their main instructor may be on the 14.5 committee, by himself he is not the standard.  If I recall correctly he also pushes use of profile of a surface more than most other committee members/instructors.
 

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Use of X by

You're right ringster. That is distrubing. I have been telling some of our designers (who are trying to use equally spaced on flange bolt circles along with BASIC and POSTION tolerancing) that "equally spaced" went out with leisure suits and has no place at all in Y14.5 dimensioning.

RE: Use of X by

Good point, Kenat. eq spaced has been beat to death in posts, but it still shows up on drawings for review, around here.

Maybe I am stretching it, but I hate to see Basic dimensions ever referred to parenthetically (in brackets, Ken), even duplicated on aux views on continuation sheets.
To me basic is basic, i.e. no tolerance, so put it in a box.

What say you all?  

RE: Use of X by

While Tec-Ease does provide some excellent information, I have seen enough little things that I consider poor practice in their examples to only rely on them for conceptual understanding.  I admit to being a little anal when it comes to a good drawing, though.
flush3

The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - Hunter S. Thompson
 

RE: Use of X by

   The real test of drafting procedures like this is to get sloppy.

   Dimension specification...

   21X [0.393] (=8.250)

   Note that 21×0.393 is 8.253.  I wonder about going something like...

   [8.250] (= 21X 0.393)

                        JHG

RE: Use of X by

Well, it looks like this post has outlived it's usefulness.

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