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Calculation software (again)
2

Calculation software (again)

Calculation software (again)

(OP)
I have several equations and all I want to do is enter some data, run the calculations, increment the input, and list the result. Plotting the result would be nice but I suppose I could just copy it into excel.

A previous thread mentioned Mathcad, which is priced out of my reach, and Python, which I haven't a clue about after going to their website. I used to know how to do Visual Basic but apparently that is obsolete now.

What should I do- just bite the bullet and get something like Python? I really don't want to become a programmer (I could probably do the calculations faster by hand, chuckle chuckle).

Thanks for any suggestions. Sorry about my ignorance of computer stuff.

RE: Calculation software (again)

Why not Excel?  And seeing that you know VB already you could always build the complex bits in VBA.  If you are going to invest some time and effort into this, but you do not want to be a programmer, then this could be the way to go.

Katmar Software
Engineering & Risk Analysis Software
http://katmarsoftware.com

RE: Calculation software (again)

One option is Mathsoft's Studyworks: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00004YZQ4?ie=UTF8&condition=new&;tag=yahoo-software-mp-20&creative=380345&creativeASIN=B00004YZQ4&linkCode=asm

It's a stripped down version of Mathcad; no in-line programming available, but simple indexed loop solver equations can be done in it.

Another option would be to find a copy of miniTKSolver, which used to be a free demo program for TKSolver.

TTFN

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RE: Calculation software (again)

I agree - Excel might just do the job

RE: Calculation software (again)

Ahh, Excel.  The only hammer owned by most engineers.

- Steve

RE: Calculation software (again)

(OP)
I never thought of excel, and I believe it will work. I'll give it a try over the weekend.

Thanks

RE: Calculation software (again)

I suggest you have a look at Octave or Scilab. These are free, fairly stable, matlab like programs. Octave is my current preference as its syntax is very very similar to Matlab's. Scilab is probably more powerful, and is certainly prettier and is changing more rapidly, but its syntax is less closely coupled to matalab's. Scilab is probably faster, if execution speed is a big deal.



 
 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Calculation software (again)

Yeah, octave's fairly recent 3.x release (I think Greg first mentioned it here) is on my PC at work and fairly often used.

- Steve

RE: Calculation software (again)

"Ahh, Excel.  The only hammer owned by most engineers. "


Hammers aren't good for everything, but if you want to knock in some nails they are hard to beat.

What's this about VBA being obsolete? VBA is included in all versions of Excel except the current Mac version, and Microsoft have said it will be put back in for the next one.  VBA is alive and well, and has many years life left in it.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Calculation software (again)

"Hammers aren't good for everything..."

If a hammer doesn't fix it, it's an electrical problem.

RE: Calculation software (again)

@ MechEng2005:

     " "Hammers aren't good for everything..."

     If a hammer doesn't fix it, it's an electrical problem. "

I take it then that an "Electrician's Hammer" would be the ONLY tool that anyone needs to carry around? ;)

http://www.tools-plus.com/hand-tools-hammers-electricians-hammer.html

     "Klein Tools
     Klein 807-18 Electrician's Hammer - $27.32
     - Straight-claw hammer
     - Correctly balanced for use in electrical work

I gotta get me one of those!

RE: Calculation software (again)

Visual Basic isn't really obsolete but the newest version VB.net doesn't support the GOSUB statement which wrecks almost every VB program I've ever written.  Last year I downloaded Visual Basic Express from Microsoft and it was free.  It's actually pretty cool, but I still use VB6.

I use CalcCenter by Wolfram which cost about $700 I think.  It's a lite version of Mathematica which takes some dedication to learn.  Not cheap but about half the cost of MathCad.  
 

RE: Calculation software (again)

I am not answering the original question, but for others to consider:

javascript is an easy simple tool for simple to somewhat complex calculations.

it seems to be ignored by engineers (not software engineers, of course)

i have implemented some calculations for regular use at
www.hydrocalc.com for example.

As an example, copy the text below to notepad; save with html extension instead of txt extension; then open the file using any browser by dragging the file from file explorer:

The result using javascript    :
<script>
    var a=3;
    var b=5;
    var c=b/a;

    document.write(c);
</script>

RE: Calculation software (again)

For any kind of sophisticated programming Excel is not sufficient in my opinion. I think all engineers should have at least one other programming language under their belt. I prefer Matlab for complex programming (ie. writing your own finite element program ect.) and for algebraic computations Maple is the ideal choice, although Matlab could be utilized here too.

cheers,

RE: Calculation software (again)

>>
For any kind of sophisticated programming Excel is not sufficient in my opinion. I think all engineers should have at least one other programming language under their belt. I prefer Matlab for complex programming (ie. writing your own finite element program ect.) and for algebraic computations Maple is the ideal choice, although Matlab could be utilized here too.
<<

Sigh.

Can you give me an example of a sophisticated programme that could be tackled in Matlab that could not be done in Excel + VBA, or could be done in Matlab + C or Fortran that could not be done in Excel + C or Fortran?

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Calculation software (again)

Grins (and a big hint), I once wrote a Matlab-like interpreter in Basic. Programming language snobbery always makes me laugh. Mr Turing explained why, fifty or sixty years ago.



 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Calculation software (again)

If you can show me how to write a 2 dimensional finite element based program in excel I withdraw my comments. Otherwise, it seems that im a 23 year old graduate student amongst elders. Sigh.

RE: Calculation software (again)

No pun intended in the above. Everyone deserves their own opinion, and I give advice based on my experience and expertise.

cheers,
 

RE: Calculation software (again)

Thanks

RE: Calculation software (again)

Seems like this discussion is rather a matter of personal preference and experience.

cheers,

RE: Calculation software (again)

Coppola - I have no problems with people preferring Matlab (or whatever).  I have no doubt that there are applications where it will do the job more quickly or with less hassle than Excel.  It was the suggestion that there are many applications that couldn't be done in Excel at all that I was contesting.  There seems to be a widespread view that Excel is some sort of toy program that isn't up to real work by professionals.  Since almost everything I do involves a spreadsheet at some stage or another I don't think that is accurate.

By the way, I have an Excel frame analysis program that works pretty well (although a bit slow for 3D work).  I'll tidy it up and post it on the 'net one of these days.

Corus - thanks for the link, looks interesting.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Calculation software (again)

Point taken. My biased view came from the fact that I am inexperienced with excel.
Thanks for the eye opener though. I can tell you that my views have changed.

all the best,

 

RE: Calculation software (again)

I was glad to see Excel come along.  I do have a second programming language that I have been taught but I have rarely used it in the years since I learned it.  It is Fortran with the programming entered into the computer via punch cards.

rmw

RE: Calculation software (again)

I punched a couple of cards, once, but then, someone showed me Remote Job Entry (RJE) through the VAX to the 370, so every line of code afterwards was on the VAX.  This was ASSEMBLY language on the 370; lots of fun, but totally useless in the course of my life and career.

TTFN

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RE: Calculation software (again)

Excel was designed to be a spreadsheet program.  At that it "excelled", to the point of killing off all its competition.  But by feature creep it's now able to do anything badly and does in too many places.

Just my view.

- Steve

RE: Calculation software (again)

SomtingGuy - I'm more interested in the things it does well, but rarely get used because of the prevailing idea that spreadsheets aren't good enough for real engineering work.

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
 

RE: Calculation software (again)

can/should
possible/optimal

Any mathematical problem can be Eexle'd.  Should all?

- Steve

RE: Calculation software (again)

It's rarely just a simple question of "should."  Given the investment needed to get Matlab, or Mathcad, many problems will get done in Excel because it's more cost-effective and does not require knowledge of a totally different user environment and paradigm.  You can obviously get the free Octave, but it still requires learning a new environment, just for a few specific applications.  

In the ideal world, you'd use the program that's most suited for the application, just like you'd use the correct tool for its application.  Obviously, we all often use tools, "off-label," simply because it's there, while the correct tool is not, or is not even in our toolbox because it's too specialized to be cost-effective.

TTFN

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RE: Calculation software (again)

Here's another alternative to Mathcad. It looks affordable ($500-1000) and pretty, I can't wrap my head around whether it can solve all the same sorts of problems easily, I think not, as it doesn't really have a symbolic processor.

http://fchart.com/ees/ees.shtml

Somebody else suggested Maxima in a different thread, an open source program.

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/


  

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Calculation software (again)

GregLocock,

   If you can get at a Linux box, you should have every programming language under the sun, except for exclusive Microsoft stuff, of course.

   The best programming language to use for anything is the one you already know.  On the rare occasion I need to write an analysis program, I use C, because I have learned it, and because I cannot remember my Fortran from college.  I like hacking with computers, but I suspect a lot of people here have better things to do with their time than learn new computer languages.

   I have used Perl on occasion because it has fantastic text processing resources.  

   If you look around, you can even find BASIC.  

               JHG

RE: Calculation software (again)

But, the whole point of using math programs is to devote one's limited resources to doing the problem, and not doing/redoing algorithms that someone else has already spent the time to debug.

TTFN

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RE: Calculation software (again)

HP calculator emulators should be mentioned here. My generation grew to depend on the real thing in college.
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/pc/emulators/
 
Of course the screen size is small and the output is tricky.

RE: Calculation software (again)

I've been getting into Maxima recently.  It's a lot of fun and even be useful one day for me.  At the moment it's a solution looking for a problem to solve.

- Steve

RE: Calculation software (again)

Drove me potty! I like the idea, but it seems very kludgy in some respects.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

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