Plesae give your ngineering opinion
Plesae give your ngineering opinion
(OP)
Hello guys
A head person in my company has asked me to go and inspect a big tailings dam in remote site (interim preliminary inspection to ensure safety for a short run). "Direction by telephone could have been provided to me" the person said
I have never inspected such kind of huge structures before and they need only one person to go. Although I have the theoretical background about tailings dams ,but I believe that these kind of tasks require judgment and experience more than science. I think that for couple of times I should by doing that under a supervision of experts. What do you think..?
Appreciated
Therefore, I said this work is beyond my capacity. That man accepted nicely. However, when I requested to be involved partially so that I can learning the process. The person again said that only one person only should be involved.
Plesae give me your opinion on the matter.
A head person in my company has asked me to go and inspect a big tailings dam in remote site (interim preliminary inspection to ensure safety for a short run). "Direction by telephone could have been provided to me" the person said
I have never inspected such kind of huge structures before and they need only one person to go. Although I have the theoretical background about tailings dams ,but I believe that these kind of tasks require judgment and experience more than science. I think that for couple of times I should by doing that under a supervision of experts. What do you think..?
Appreciated
Therefore, I said this work is beyond my capacity. That man accepted nicely. However, when I requested to be involved partially so that I can learning the process. The person again said that only one person only should be involved.
Plesae give me your opinion on the matter.





RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
The inspection part definitely requires a detailed knowledge/experience base on how they are constructed, evidence of problems, vs relatively benign seepage and erosion or sloughing, etc. Twenty years ago, I was tangentially involved with investigating one that failed, possibly due to bad location of the cyclone discharge. Had I gone out there the day before, would I have noticed that? Probably not, regardless of how well I knew undrained shear strength, large-strain consolidation, and slope stability, but an experienced tailings-dam guy would have seen it and raised the alarm.
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
add surveyor to the inspection team to verify the dam slopes, freeboard etc...
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
Guys... do not forget that I was requested to go alone alone without even a technician. Do not forget that although it is preliminary but my stamp is required to be affixed on it.
I saw a tailings dam once in my life time. In general Inspections tasks require experienece more than degrees which are neccessary but not sufficient.
Correct me If I am wrong. Was I fair with the company when I said no in this state
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
Now, how remote is 'remote'? And what are you looking for?
I did a few dam(n) evaluations that I did not had to stamp but common sense made me identify what i thought were flagrant flaws. However, I did warn that someone with more knowledge should take a look too. When the experienced foreman showed up, he did find a few things that were not obvious to me.
<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
suggest you increase your knowledge by looking at some of the following resources regarding dam safety, O&M and emergency actions
h
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
It's often prudent engineering to have an initial field assult prior to getting the real work done. Whether you are the correct person for this task is a separate topic. I guess your boss thinks so and you do not.
Then again, I may be missing something.
f-d
¡papá gordo ain't no madre flaca!
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
Evidentally, you are not that particular Chuck V.G.
DRG
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
Also these guys do not seem interested in an indepth review. They may only want a CYA (cover your backside)report should there be a problem.
I think you made the right choice.
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
I can appreciate your situation. As I was a young engineer once, I understand, as an employer, I want to see what you got to offer. Why are you getting that salary and bonuses and how can you contribute to the firm?
You may want to really think about turning tail on this one and look at it as a challenge. Maybe this is your Everest, you over come this and you can basically write your own pay cheques. Keep in mind, you have senior staff to go to, if not go to the owner/president of your firm (he's the man ending up in court), if not them then find another engineer......heck all of us on this site will help as much as possible and if no one else will step up....I will.
I understand your apprehension, but sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone a little and learn that the process of site investigation and observations and documenting and attention to detail and the scientific process of analyses works. And will always back you up in court. I went here....on this day.....I observed this....deficiencies noticed are as follows.....The issues are this.....I recommend a more complete investigation with a combination of other professionals....etc.
Of course I am over simplifying the situation, but ultimately geotechniqa, the person who pays your liability insurance is the one who ends up in court. So they are the ones who need to evaluate whether you are qualified for the job and unless you lied on a resume, they must feel that you have the qualifications.
You have all the tools in your tool box......just have the confidence in using them. This is what your boss is looking for. So I challenge you, roll up your sleeves and engulf yourself in the world of engineering, grab the wheel with both hands and tell yourself what would Karl Terzaghi or Ralph Peck do in this situation.
I guarantee, this is the spirit that your boss is looking for. Show this style and attitude and you will get all kinds of help and direction from senior staff.
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
It would be instructive to read some of Peck's writings on his earlier years in practice, and the times that Terzaghi caught something in the field or in the analysis that Peck had missed due to his relative inexperience. I knew him fairly well in his later years from the times we hired him as a reviewer on our projects, and he (like Terzaghi) was always a strong advocate for heavy involvement of geologists on dam projects. I don't believe I would cite him in arguing for boldly charging into an area where you uncomfortable with your own qualifications.
We're not talking about a house foundation here; it's a big tailings dam, with complex technical issues and potentially huge consequences from errors (environmental, fatalities, economic damages both off property and from loss of use). I stand by my earlier conclusion - unless you are Reinhold Messner, don't solo Everest.
At minimum, read S.G. Vick's book on tailings dams.
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
I completely agree with you regarding tackling projects that are not in your area of expertise. I also agree that on larger projects, a team of technical specialists is required and yes the project this young person has described appears to be a large project.
I do feel that the concept of bowing out gracefully is becoming far too over used today and that we need to realize that this should not always be the first option. I'm not saying it is not an option, but I will say this, as an employer, it helps when your junior staff have passion. I also think in times when you feel that you are above your capabilities, that clearly defining your scope is critical. I just can't see a senior engineer wanting a junior woodchuck to inspect a tailings dam all by themself. If this is the case then I stand corrected and appoligize, but somehow I think there is more here.
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion
RE: Plesae give your ngineering opinion