Head Gasket
Head Gasket
(OP)
Does anyone know if you need to use a sealer on a new head gasket while rebuilding a 460 Ford motor? If so what is best to use? The engine is a 1986 model and needed new heads because of broken manifold bolts. We need to install the heads with new headers, and the intake. All help is welcomed.
Thanks,
Steve
Thanks,
Steve





RE: Head Gasket
Read instructions
Do what the say
Regards
Pat
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RE: Head Gasket
Rod
RE: Head Gasket
RE: Head Gasket
Jim
RE: Head Gasket
The last 460 Ford I did, the felpro gaskets where coated with a sticky sealer of sorts. Other than those shim gaskets I never use a sealer on head gaskets.
RE: Head Gasket
One item I just crossed paths with...the "compression rings".
Interesting that they are still available and even more amazing that there are still engine builders that would use them. We used fine wire to build compression rings on the solid copper head gaskets I described, it's really the only easy way to "O" ring a flathead. Point is, they are, and rightly should be, relegated to the past! Gaskets are much improved since 1948. "O" ringing the block on most engines is totally unnecessary these days...21st Century tech and all that!
Rod
RE: Head Gasket
RE: Head Gasket
I think, looking back, my use of "O" rings, "compression rings" and sealers was a "monkey see, monkey do" sort of thing. I found better ways of dealing with the problems along the way. Part of this is much better head gaskets, I am sure...Part is I'm older and a bit more careful in my assembly. "Do it right the first time and you won't need to do it over" sort of attitude.
See...Even as old, hard headed and, stubborn as I am, one CAN learn (eventually).
The 'next' project for my Mini is to "dry deck" the engine and 'do away' with the head gasket altogether. Perhaps next rebuild as it will require new pistons as well.
Rod
RE: Head Gasket
Wasn't it Ettore Bugatti who said (words to the effect); "anyone who needs gaskets can't machine a surface"?
Having worked on a few Bugs I can say that they leak all over the place unless you use sealers (I hear EB turning...), but EB did resolve the head gasket issue by casting head and block as a single unit, i.e. cheating...
RE: Head Gasket
Tioga seems to have not liked my advice. I wonder if it is in essence any different from what everyone else said.
I also wondered why a broken manifold bolt requires a new head. Repairing broken bolts is not all that hard to do so long as you have the right tools.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Head Gasket
There is one OUTSTANDING sealer that ensures long term high stress head sealing & easy removal on rebuild. It will take the heat of battle & remains flexible enough to cope with anything. It can be used on cast iron, aluminium, copper, stainless steel, also can be used with petrol, diesel, methyl benzine, avgas etc. It's oil & coolant resistant as well.
You have to apply firm leverage force to the heads until you hear the seal start to tear when removing the heads.
The product is "ThreeBond WHITE", one tube goes a long way you will not find better, simply apply a "very thin" spread out film with an artists brush on the block side of the gasket, place gasket over studs or dowels & coat the other side & fit heads & torque down. It will spread out very evenly with an even crush.
Just remember to leave a 3-4mm non coated surface around ALL holes on the gasket, it will spread to seal these itself.
We use laser cut S/Steel gaskets with ThreeBond WHITE as the sealer & forget head gasket woes forever & we reuse these over & over again.
As a test once we scored the gasket deeply with a scribe at the bores to see if it would end up failing due to combustion pressure & bugger me it just keeps on keeping on--perfect & no it didn't fail.
Oh, i forgot, you MUST clean the block & head surface with paint thinners first & wipe dry--totaly clean! Do this first & then work quickly & precisely
This product is good.
RE: Head Gasket
Even Cometics has not been able to contain excessive boost......
RE: Head Gasket
RE: Head Gasket
The dry deck system is common on Mini's but at a low 11:1 CR. I intend to use ~16:1 so I can foresee a need to "O" ring the cylinders when using NO head gasket as I plan my dry deck system. I've been using Threebond 1104 for several years to replace most of my gasket applications and as I see it, I may use it, along with "O" rings to replace the head gasket. For now, all the "dry deck" systems I have seen simply block off all the water passages in the head (or gasket) and use the stock type head gasket. With my system, I want to eliminate that 0.035" space.
The only high boost levels(relatively) was my T-coupe at ~22 psi boost levels and ~8.5: CR. It still needed H2O injection on special occasions. I used a stock Ford gasket. On my British race cars I use Payen gaskets (made in England) and, so far, have had no failures using 14:1 CR.
Rod
RE: Head Gasket
I use copper and "O" rings and receiver groves for our blown SBC at 45# boost. We use a bit of Permatex to seal the water passages and don't really care if it seeps a little as it only runs 1/4 mile, but the Threebond sounds like a good tip.
Rod & Pat, I am interested in your thoughts. The blown SBC I work on now we are producing over 40# boost has started pushing inlet manifold to port gaskets into the valley as the floor of the port at the sealing surface is no more than 1/8" thick. This results in a sump full of methanol and the manifold to valley silicone seal being blown then oil blowing onto the bell housing and magneto. I have centre punched both surfaces, checked for even clamp as best I can and glued them to the head with Permatex. Do yo think the Threebond will hold better. There is no room on the head for rubber O" rings on the head in that area.
We currently use Felpro Printoseals, but I also wonder if a cheaper straight grey cardboard gasket glued both sides might hold better as the glue would have more to grip. As the Felpros are failing, we can't reuse them anyway and I feel the printoseal surface reduces grip and does not accept glue well.
Back to the OP.
He said rebuilding a 1986 model 460 Ford. No mention of performance or race. I am sure any good brand gasket installed as recomended will surfice for his needs.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Head Gasket
I used to know a guy who made 'no slip' grips for pistols.. out of the gun frame itself. He'd blue and scribe a rectangular pattern maybe 3x3mm to 5x5mm, and at each intersection, drive in a sharp prick punch at an angle, raising a chip... and leaving the chip. You had to peel your hand off the grip to release the gun.
Maybe you could do something like that to your manifold gasket faces...
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Head Gasket
If my gluing efforts failed I was considering either little pins as stakes or a ledge screwed to the bottom of the port runners to act as a retaining wall for the gasket.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Head Gasket
The main problem in racing a Mini Cooper is the joint between the gearbox and the block. It seems no amount of regular sealer, RTV or, paper gasket will prevent 'blow out'. I see several of the Mini racers on the national forum using solid shim copper gaskets...I'm not sure how well they work, but I consider it a bit of overkill. I am using the Threebond 1104 (Google this Pat, they have many other sealers) for my gearbox/engine joint sans gasket. I tried it with the paper gasket once and it failed but with NO gasket it works flawlessly. No leaks or failures in five years.
Now, how this might work on a SBC intake.....The last SBC intake I used was a stamped steel thing on my '61 Corvette about a million years ago and my memory is only accurate for about two weeks!!!
Rod
RE: Head Gasket
Al
RE: Head Gasket
RE: Head Gasket
I am blowing the cardboard type inlet manifold gasket into the valley on a SBC V8. There is no room for extra bolts without a LOT of welding.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Head Gasket
RE: Head Gasket
I should have started my own thread, but they were here and it followed the topic.
I thought it possible you read the original heading and did not notice I hijacked it about 3/4 of the way down.
This is a professional forum and sometimes the language is businesslike rather than social as we do want to be accurate, precise and concise but we do not want to invest unnecessary time.
I was abrupt with the OP due to the quality of his question.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Head Gasket
CNCHeadporter:
Geez, fill in your profile and give us something shorter to call you.
From your other posts, you seem to know what your are about (I hate porting...I do it, but I hate it. Each time I swear it will be my last)... welcome to the hijacked thread...I have become so accustomed to these segues that they pass totally unnoticed.
Pat, go ahead and start a new thread...I'll see it. The subject matter is of concern to me as gaskets are, and have been for over fifty years, a pain in my @ss!
I like the idea of a matching "step or groove" in the manifold surface using only a sealer and NO paper gasket. I hate them things! I like Threebond 1104, but Hylomar, as well as several other RTV's should work. I have just had good experience with the Threebond.
Rod
RE: Head Gasket
I still think he was a home handyman who wanted us to give him info that is in the instructions that come with the part if he actually bothered to read such things. I just noticed his post saying he did not like my attitude is gone. I thought he made a good call on that and I would not have flagged it. I was being abrupt to him as I thought that was all his OP was worth.
CNC
Rod is right
You know your stuff and I think you will like it here.
As I think you will stick around, it would be easier and more personal if we had a reasonable name to address you by.
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers for professional engineers
RE: Head Gasket