MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
(OP)
Rant warning.
I'm applying for jobs, mostly in aerospace structural analysis, and it seems like I can't even get an interview since I don't have experience using NASTRAN, PATRAN or ANSYS, etc. The thing that really burns is that I have experience writing finite element analysis applications FROM SCRATCH, I have experience with other FEA packages, I have a B.S. and an M.S. from top-notch programs in structures and mechanics and for the past year I've been doing FEA without the help of a GUI (mesh generation algorithms, in-house FEA solvers, data visualization software, etc.). All the employers care about is if you've been using certain black boxes for umpteen years...
When I talk to recruiters they go "do you know NASTRAN? No? Hmm..."
The funny thing is is that I was being considered on the development side of certain FEA tools. But that brings me to my second problem...I don't have experience with C++, only C/C+.
Does this mean that I'm likely to be considered only at entry level if considered at all?
I appreciate any help. Thanks for taking the time to read this frustrated engineer's rant.
I'm applying for jobs, mostly in aerospace structural analysis, and it seems like I can't even get an interview since I don't have experience using NASTRAN, PATRAN or ANSYS, etc. The thing that really burns is that I have experience writing finite element analysis applications FROM SCRATCH, I have experience with other FEA packages, I have a B.S. and an M.S. from top-notch programs in structures and mechanics and for the past year I've been doing FEA without the help of a GUI (mesh generation algorithms, in-house FEA solvers, data visualization software, etc.). All the employers care about is if you've been using certain black boxes for umpteen years...
When I talk to recruiters they go "do you know NASTRAN? No? Hmm..."
The funny thing is is that I was being considered on the development side of certain FEA tools. But that brings me to my second problem...I don't have experience with C++, only C/C+.
Does this mean that I'm likely to be considered only at entry level if considered at all?
I appreciate any help. Thanks for taking the time to read this frustrated engineer's rant.





RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
What's C+?
Anyway, to get anywhere interesting in this business (i.e. not a mesh monkey/node pusher/etc), you will need to know FORTRAN, scripting languages (pthon, perl, etc) and probably have some decent real-life experience of a commercial FEA solver.
- Steve
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Everything I've been doing for the past 16 months has been in FORTRAN90 (MS Visual Studio), and C Shell scripts...but no python or perl unfortunately.
So FORTRAN experience is still valuable?
It sounds like going into structural analysis full time is a bad thing: 'node pusher/mesh monkey'. Is that what you guys think?
All I really want to do is program. I don't like structural design. I should have majored in computer science.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Sympathize with your rant, in my field it's solid modellers. "Must have X years with package Y." No mention of actual engineering skills.
Regards,
Mike
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Fortran experience is still valuable in FEA land. If nothing else it helps you to understand how these monoliths work. And believe it or not, many FEA coders are still using Fortran ... out of choice too (!!).
If you really want to program, look for work with one of the FEA providers. Where are you based?
- Steve
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
My guess is that you (or your agents) are applying to companies full of end-users, you need to be applying to the software houses themselves. Even big companies like Ford have pretty much stopped developing FEA or pre and post processor code themselves, partly because macro-ing has got so much easier.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
I'm in Los Angeles, but I will relocate just about anywhere that's decent. I'm all about the work.
Actually I wouldn't mind getting out of L.A. It's so expensive and traffic's unbelievable.
-Joe
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
- Steve
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
I sympathise with your problem, I had exactly the same trouble 10 years ago and I had 9 years commercial FORTRAN FEM programming under my belt!! With no C++ or Python (or similar) programming and no PATRAN/NASTRAN under my belt it was hard to find a new job.
Competition for FEA programming jobs is fierce at the top notch companies in the USA. Unless you are world class they are not interested. You have to be realistic about your abilities on the world stage. I would advise against working for FEA companies outside the top 5.
I took a very junior end-user job, got the magic words on my CV, quickly switched to contracting and haven't looked back since. These days I even get to do programming sometimes and specialise in high complexity FE to trouble shoot expensive problems. I still take mesh monkey jobs and hand calc jobs inbetween interesting contracts - you can't afford to be too fussy.
It's not so bad, good luck.
gwolf
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
For one job I applied for, I didn't know Fluent but knew quite a few other CFD programs, and didn't have too much issue getting past HR. When it came to talking with the engineers, I was blunt in stating what I was and wasn't capable of (i.e. could learn a package quickly etc.)
-
Syl.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
I think that you, and everyone who reads this thread must realize that somehow in this millenia HR has unfortunately become a "profession" and therefore a hurdle to be either jumped or somehow avoided.
Most HR people (and MBA managers) have no idea what finite element analysis is......they only understand the duty to "ask the NASTRAN question" and check it off as "yes or no" on the employee assesment form.
Somehow...you must get to those who make real decisions.
Mesh monkeys and node pushers must pay their bills also.
Don't be afraid to lie or deceive....the MBAs will do it to you too
My opinions only
-MJC
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
- Steve
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
I suggest that you get yourself a demo version of Nastran. Its usually free or available for a minor fee. You should be able to learn it with the help of the user manuals, which you can print out from the supplied disks. You already know how to use FEA. Now you just need to tailor yourself to the peculiarities of NASTRAN. You can probably learn it well enough in about a month. I had used STAAD in the past and was able to transition into NASTRAN rapidly.
I would also suggest that you pick up a copy of Analysis & Design of Flight Vehicle Structures by Bruhn (You will need to get it used).
My boss is an ex-aerostructures guy. He has personally observed several folks transition from civil to aero structures. He says that the main challenge for the civil folks is that they are too used to relying on "packaged" design methodologies. Good Luck to You.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
I think I am the product of an overly competitive job market for Structural Engineers. You are told you have to get an advanced degree, but not because you need the additional knowledge or technical ability, just because it's what employers prefer. So you work really hard in school, get an advanced degree from freaking Berekely or Stanford that you don't really need when you begin working, and if you actually wanted to use the fun stuff you learned, you will be very disappointed.
Ok, there's my additional rant. Sorry.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
Joe, it is common for some grads to be disappointed in the level of work initially assigned. The lesson here is to always be aware of what skills are valuable in your field, and keep up with them.
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
RE: MUST HAVE NASTRAN EXPERIENCE (RANT)
I share your frustrations, though. I remember some years back, hearing that industries were complaining to Congress about the lack of qualified workers. Yet, at the same time, they seemed to be unwilling to invest anything in making workers qualified. If each company expects the others to train people for whatever the application is, you've got problems. I remember in Colorado Springs, there were two aerospace companies in town, and neither seemed interested in bringing anyone new into that industry. The result was the only talent pool for each company was the other company- and then they wondered why they couldn't find enough people. It seems to be a penny-wise-pound-foolish situation.