Ad Hoc Ban
Ad Hoc Ban
(OP)
I was going to tag this onto one of the other threads (t seemed to fit with the one on Welsh language signs) but felt this one stood on its own.
For some reason, (PC of course, their use is "elitist and discriminatory")it appears that Salisbury Council wanted to ban the use of latin phrases in public/official documents.
(http: //www.tele graph.co.u k/news/ukn ews/336215 0/Councils -ban-eliti st-and-dis criminator y-Latin-ph rases.html)
Not to be outdone (but an imaginative headline from Scotland):
"Fife Council's ad hoc ban of latin..."
(http: //news.stv .tv/scotla nd/37790-f ife-counci ls-ad-hoc- latin-ban/)
You know, the use of pretty well any language can be considered "elitist and discriminating" in these terms and, taken to a logical conclusion in a country where the dominant language is some form of English, Welsh, Erse, Gaelic etc. can all be considered elitist and should be banned.
Of course, doctors, lawyers, gardeners and botanists all have some working use of Latin or Latin names. In the old days of the Beeb there was nothing so entertaining as hearing Latin tags in a broad local accent. Professor David Bellamy was particularly adept and rendering the Latin botanical tags entertaining.
Of corse, such bans are stupid and ultimately doomed to failure because of the extent to which latin pervades the English language anyway but supose we take it the other way and accord Latin the same status as Welsh, Erse or (in Canada) French and require all signs have a Latin Translation.
Some locations are a natural target such as hospitals: ENR becomes ORL (Ear Nose Throat = Oto Rhino Laryngology Dept.
It reminds me of my landlady when I was a student in Liverpool. She was an elderly grandmother with a gret big house in Princes Park. She was also, naturally, of Irish origins and her greatest complaint was when the Pope decided that in future mass would be conducted not in Latin, but in the local language. She felt that wherever she was in the world she could attend mass and feel at home but if it was in the local language she would be alienated.
To my knowledge she had never left Liverpool so while it really had little relevance to herself it was none the less valid for others who do travel.
Incidentally, she, like most landladies and especially those with students, had a long list of "does" and "don'ts". The unusual addendum was " Don't let the dog out."
The dog was Shep, a long haired collie (Lassie type).
Our first day back from lectures and we had barely gotten the door a few inches open when the dog wriggled through, shot through a gap in the hedge and legged it for the park. We quietly pulled the dor closed again and set off in pursuit. Some hours later, having collared a couple of "Sheps" and been accosted by their real owners we retreated in disorder from Princes park and crept back to our digs.
Shep was waiting by the door sated by a dip in the lake and a roll in some very smelly mud.
We grabbed his collar and quietly opened the door and crept upstairs taking the dog with us and we then broke rule number two about baths and showers in order to wash the dog.
Our landlady seemed to think we were the best students she'd ever had that we should, on our first day, wash and groom her dog.
Of course, later events soon disabused her of this misconception but it was good while it lasted.
By the way, back on topic, I liked this quote:
""If you look at the diversity of all our communities you have got people for whom English is a second language. They might mistake eg for egg and little things like that can confuse people."
Do you want your exemplar gratia easy over or sunny side up?
For some reason, (PC of course, their use is "elitist and discriminatory")it appears that Salisbury Council wanted to ban the use of latin phrases in public/official documents.
(http:
Not to be outdone (but an imaginative headline from Scotland):
"Fife Council's ad hoc ban of latin..."
(http:
You know, the use of pretty well any language can be considered "elitist and discriminating" in these terms and, taken to a logical conclusion in a country where the dominant language is some form of English, Welsh, Erse, Gaelic etc. can all be considered elitist and should be banned.
Of course, doctors, lawyers, gardeners and botanists all have some working use of Latin or Latin names. In the old days of the Beeb there was nothing so entertaining as hearing Latin tags in a broad local accent. Professor David Bellamy was particularly adept and rendering the Latin botanical tags entertaining.
Of corse, such bans are stupid and ultimately doomed to failure because of the extent to which latin pervades the English language anyway but supose we take it the other way and accord Latin the same status as Welsh, Erse or (in Canada) French and require all signs have a Latin Translation.
Some locations are a natural target such as hospitals: ENR becomes ORL (Ear Nose Throat = Oto Rhino Laryngology Dept.
It reminds me of my landlady when I was a student in Liverpool. She was an elderly grandmother with a gret big house in Princes Park. She was also, naturally, of Irish origins and her greatest complaint was when the Pope decided that in future mass would be conducted not in Latin, but in the local language. She felt that wherever she was in the world she could attend mass and feel at home but if it was in the local language she would be alienated.
To my knowledge she had never left Liverpool so while it really had little relevance to herself it was none the less valid for others who do travel.
Incidentally, she, like most landladies and especially those with students, had a long list of "does" and "don'ts". The unusual addendum was " Don't let the dog out."
The dog was Shep, a long haired collie (Lassie type).
Our first day back from lectures and we had barely gotten the door a few inches open when the dog wriggled through, shot through a gap in the hedge and legged it for the park. We quietly pulled the dor closed again and set off in pursuit. Some hours later, having collared a couple of "Sheps" and been accosted by their real owners we retreated in disorder from Princes park and crept back to our digs.
Shep was waiting by the door sated by a dip in the lake and a roll in some very smelly mud.
We grabbed his collar and quietly opened the door and crept upstairs taking the dog with us and we then broke rule number two about baths and showers in order to wash the dog.
Our landlady seemed to think we were the best students she'd ever had that we should, on our first day, wash and groom her dog.
Of course, later events soon disabused her of this misconception but it was good while it lasted.
By the way, back on topic, I liked this quote:
""If you look at the diversity of all our communities you have got people for whom English is a second language. They might mistake eg for egg and little things like that can confuse people."
Do you want your exemplar gratia easy over or sunny side up?





RE: Ad Hoc Ban
For common terms it's ridiculous.
KENAT,
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
I'm not sure if Microsoft are incredibly conceited or just ignorant but PC has the other meaning "Political Correctness".
These examples are found attached in some of the articles on Latin bans:
"Amber Valley Council, in Derbyshire, has told staff it is no longer acceptable to use language 'that portrays once sex as subordinate to the other'.
Staff have been instructed to say 'synthetic' rather than 'man made', 'lay person' instead of 'lay man', 'people in general' in place of 'man in the street', 'one person show' rather than 'one man show' and 'ancestors' instead of 'forefathers'.
Broadland Council, in Norfolk, has banned 'housewife' and replaced it with 'homemaker' and asked staff to refer to 'staffing' rather than 'manning' levels.
Several councils including Blyth Valley and Weymouth have banned the phrase disabled toilet and disabled parking because they imply that the facilities themselves are disabled.
They have renamed them accessible toilets and accessible parking."
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Patricia Lougheed
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
hupeople?
peoplekind?
fireperson?
Peoplechester? (yeah, probably a bad jk on this one, but hey! I'm an engineer, we do that!)
disabled persons are now accesible persons? Is disabled still PC?
Sometimes (very often) I think this asexism is just going way too far
<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
- Steve
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
It's these same people that studied Herstory as school.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
ummm, "ego" ??? Isn't that latin?
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
And although one can go overboard trying to get rid of racist, sexist, and other -ist language, there's something to it. I became a convert (backsliding a lot recently within the engineering world) to trying to use fairly gender-neutral language (without digging down too deep within word structure) after reading Douglas Hofstadter's "A Person Paper On Purity in Language", which is now a chapter in Metamagical Themas (which, on the whole, is a book that should rather appeal to geeks). Here's the link:
http://ww
I don't expect it to convert everyone, but it certainly got me thinking.
Furthermore, I don't have a cite on hand (used to), but there are studies that show that gender-specific language does indeed reinforce stereotypes, and so it's not just a neutral fact of grammar.
I got to where I could do a timed essay exam without resorting to gender-specific language (using plural to avoid pronouns, etc.). It's easier to do than you might think.
I figure if I'm gonna take offense to usage like "He wanted $5 but I jewed him down to $3" (and I do, very strongly), I shouldn't be okay with sexist language either.
Hg
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Hg
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
KENAT,
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
old field guy
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Of course, engineers are coarse.
Think: how are we to rename male and female connectors without gender specificity....?
Chemists: lavo and dextro rotation...Latin and Greek.
Will they stop at eliminating Latin?
We could list any number of words in the English language that don't originate in English.
We will no longer run amok (Malay) or go Bersek (Viking?), or doolally. Jodpurs is out.
Gauche is out but replace with what? cackhanded?
Vogue magazine will need to be renamed.
Where does this stop?
It isn't a new thing. The French were very concerned about Americanisms and what to call a CD. "Un CD" Le weekend, Le Jumbo being among the terms held abhorent.
No PC in France, it is "un ordinateur".
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Have you got a clear start date for the "politically Correct" usage of "PC"?
I first saw it in widespread use in about 1991 when I lived in a house with a student activist, but felt then that people like him had already been using it for quite a long time.
A.
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
I don't know but I do know my home PC is Differently Abled at the moment
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
However, "PC" for "personal computer" goes back to early 80s if not late 70s. My family purchased an IBM "PC" around 1982-3, and they had been around for a while at that time.
Keep in mind, Microsoft inherited (or stole, depending on your perspective) the whole "PC" thing from IBM. IBM faded from the personal computer industry in both hardware and software, while Microsoft gained a near-monopoly on the software side, but we can thank IBM for "PC" as a trade name and eventually generic name for a particular kind of personal computer with a particular genre of operating system.
Hg
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
KENAT,
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Still not seeing what's rantworthy here.
Hg
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
- Steve
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
We aren't as PC generally as much of the states, and much of Engineering is even further behind.
KENAT,
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Hg
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Especially given that the original series of commercials appears not to have been widespread in the UK I think he has a point about MS being a bit conceited, or at least not really thinking things through.
Plus, I haven't paid much attention but I think maybe the commercial only says anything about MS right at the end or in small text.
KENAT,
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
It seems they want to ban any gender specific terms of address including Mr and Mrs etc.
See it here:
http://
The economy burns and the Euro Tzars fiddle.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Placenames, for example:
Manitoba
Manchester
Ladysmith
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
- Steve
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
RE: Ad Hoc Ban
KENAT,
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RE: Ad Hoc Ban
Littlehampton
Northampton
Southampton
- Steve