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What kind of engineer am I??
2

What kind of engineer am I??

What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
Hi all,

I have a strange engineering degree and an even more strange set of professional experiences.  I am finally in the process of finding a 'real job,' and am having trouble convincing people that I am worth their while and trouble finding where I fit in.

- I have Bachelor of Arts in Engineering; engineering fundamentals, with a breadth of other coursework like policy, economics, project management, etc.
- I have experience with a civil engineering company
- I have learned electronics in the past few years; have developed hardware, firmware, software, and have had experience in a wide range of 'product' development
- I work really well with people and am exceedingly good at educating non-technical folks about technical stuff I've been working on, and love doing that.


What kind of engineer can I be?  How do I market myself to employers?

Can I be an Applications Engineer?  Client Engagement Engineer?  Would someone hire me to be a hardware engineer without a BS in Electrical Engineering?

Any advice would be very appreciated.  Thanks everyone.

Cheers,
   DHD

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Have you thought about management?
Maybe some type of aircraft ground/flight testing.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
Sure.  Would love to be in management, but it seems like someone would have to do something specific for a company to gain experience in order to move up to a management position.  Has this been your experience?

The one thing I could somewhat easily do is move into some kind of Construction Project Management position, but I have really grown to like the electronics hardware stuff I've been working on.  I don't need to work at a very specific function on hardware, but I'd like to work generally with 'products'.  That's kind of vague, but the only way I can describe my goals.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

I think after crossing the 5yr threshold, you can drop the "junior" from your resume.  Application Engineers usually fulfill a sales role for a company, pairing customer requirements with company offerings.  I don't think this is what you want to do.  I think the new buzz word you want to be researching is "mechatronics".  I think that would describe your skill set and career goals.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
whoa.

that's news to me: Mechatronics

nice.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

A BA in Engineering.  Now that's a new one.  Sounds like your degree program lacked the physical and mathematical rigor that sets degreed engineers apart from other folks!  It looks like maybe a management role is in order.  You could end up being my boss!
 

Tunalover

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
My school had top notch programs for chem, EE, etc., for a liberal arts school, at least.  I just could never make up my mind.  I also grabbed a philosophy degree.  ha.

I've gained such an appreciation for product development and more design oriented stuff since then, however.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Hmm, you seem to have interpersonal skills, not sure if you would fit in with management
(winky smiley face here)

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
hahaha...  I'll remember that when I'm your boss.






( very kidding.  haha )

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

One of our leading "engineers" (untill he left a couple years ago) had his degree in sociology or something like that.  Not sure how he got into cutting edge development of nanotechnology.

He didn't really have the interpersonel skills though, surprisingly given his supposed major.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Bill,
I would first try to find what professional afiliations your degree would get you.  I can't believe that you have the qualifications to jump between civil engineering and electronics - professional codes of conduct prohibit practicing outside your own field.

Regards,
Bill
 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

2
Hey tunalover, your lack of knowledge about engineering degrees does you no credit.

I've got a BA in engineering, from a university that is older than your country, so it's not exactly a new one on me.




 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Would that be Oxford or Cambridge?

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

GregLocock-
As I said it's a new one on me.  It's also makes me wonder why someone would want a not-so-scientific degree program.  Did you have trouble finding employers who saw the degree program as one that produces engineers?  Just asking. No offense.

 

Tunalover

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Well Greg, I have never seen a BA Engineering degree as well in my 18 years in engineering.   It may be common in England or Australia, but not here.  Here the BS degree is king and based on the description given by the OP for the BA degree, I would not consider a candidate with that degree for a technical position.

    


 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Never seen a BA in engineering.

Greglocok,
He did say he had a strange engineering degree. No need to come across so arrogantly.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Same here I have never heard of a BA in Engineering.  What did the degree focus on?  Was it Mechanical, Electrical, Civil, or Chemical?  BS is common, but I have a degree that is on the other side of the spectrum, which is the Bachelor of Engineering in ME.  Also, to do Civil Engineering, do you have your Professional License?  Check out some books on Mechatronics  (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=mechatronics&r=1).  It does sound like what you are doing...

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Quite a few private schools in Mexico offer B.A Industrial engineering. These are merely hard-hat administrators

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

In the UK, I think it's only Oxford and Cambridge that offer BA/MA in engineering.  All the others offer BEng/MEng.  They also do BSc (Bachelor of Science) courses but these are now seen as 'lesser' engineering degrees.

I have a friend who went to Cambridge and got an MA MEng.  They get the MA part just because they went to Cambridge.  The degree they did was civil and was very theoretical with very little practical application, well compared to mine at least.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
Just to clear up what my BA program was...
I took all the typical core engineering courses that anyone would who is pursuing a ChemE, EE, ME, whatever, then took a few electives in different specialties.  Then last year or two consists of taking economics, business, management, and policy courses, but within the engineering department, as those topics pertain directly to engineering in general.

While I was in school, I never thought of myself as someone who would end up being a design engineer, but had a technical mind, so went with the BA.

Now that I've had experience designing a bunch of cool products, I have a greater appreciation for the 'design' side of engineering, but still have no desire to strictly specialize.

I am not 'qualified' as a Civil, Electrical, or Mechanical Engineer in the sense of having professional certifications.  I taught myself electronics over that last two years, so there are certainly holes in my knowledge.

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is that I've never ended up taking a typical path with respect to Engineering as a discipline, and have no intention of doing so now, but have a huge desire to find out about atypical paths and how I might market myself to employers that could provide those paths.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

Cheers.
DHD

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

What about 'patent lawyer'?

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
That sounds horrible.  No offense to patent lawyers.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

To put you guys out of your mysery, Oxford & Cambridge (a.k.a. Oxbridge) ONLY offer BA degrees in everything, be it science, arts, engineering, politics.  You can't choose a BA over other anything else.

The MA comes after a few years working (can't remember how many), you don't need any more study.  You just have to pay some admin charge (again, can't remember how much) and pick up your gong.

This is all based on tradition, of course.

Degree names apart, the odd thing is that the degree courses on offer at Oxbridge (in my time) were simply called "Engineering Science".

- Steve

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Tunalover, are you implying Cambridge or Oxford degrees are less 'scientific' because for histrical reasons they are BA no BS/BEng?

Or are you just talking about he OP's degree?

Anyway, to the OP, the point of my earlier post was that in 'new' technological fields etc they tend to be less hung up on paper qualifications and more interested in ability/results.

So, I'd maybe consider looking in those kind of fields.
 

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
Good advice.
Any preferred resources on keeping up with what engineering fields are emerging, or are 'new'?  I have a general idea of the newer technologies and applicable industries, but I wouldn't mind some reference.
Any ideas?

DHD

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Yes, Ive got a BA from Cambridge. It is a fully accredited engineering degree, and if I give them 30 quid they'll call it an MA. My selection of papers was more or less mechanical with a slant towards structural analysis and dynamics.

I studied all the usual stuff that a mechanical engineer does, did labs/workshop 4 or 5 afternoons a week, and had lectures all morning 6 days a week for the first year. Every week I had a two on one tutorial with a lecturer or a professor (not a teaching assistant). We did not waste any time on ethics, writing, or all the other things you Americans pad your courses out with.

We had compulsory industrial experience in at least one vacation (I didn't do that since I was already employed).

It is easily in the top 5 engineering courses in the UK, Imperial and Southhampton are the two that would give stiff competition for the top spot.

It's not a perfect engineering course - far too much maths, and the intake, when I was there, was partly of people who wanted to do pure science but didn't have the grades so were recommended to do engineering as it was 'easier'. Haha. Not surprisingly the dropout rate was high.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

" We did not waste any time on ethics, writing, or all the other things you Americans pad your courses out with."


Yeah, that whole 'ethics' thing is a real waste of time.
 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Well either you are being sarcastic, which is great, but you need to include a cue, or you are being serious.

If the latter, why is it OK to have a society in which only those who go to university learn about ethics?


 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Very sarcastic. Who is talking about society? I only responded to your remark in which you stated all American engineering studies were padded with ethics courses, which is not the case. The two courses I had in school which covered different ethical aspects and how they related to engineering in general were not a waste of time in my eyes, but to each his own I suppose.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Funny isn't it?  People in the know would see Greg's BA and immediately know what it means (like I did).  People not in the know assume it's a soft degree.

- Steve

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

It is the connotation that when people see "Art" instead of "Science" for an Engineering degree, people think it is not focused on science but liberal art subjects (which is not the case).  I kinda have the same look too when they see my degree.  When they see Bachelor of Engineering, they think Bachelor of Engineering Technology.  I even had a manger that checked him self (HR has already verified my degree) to see if I was an Engineer and not a Tech.   

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Not to get off subject, but if you want to work for major aerospace companies, you will have to know ethics.
It's not a waist of time, only for those that have something to hide.
In general, ethics should be followed by ALL human beings, not just Americans.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

In general, ethics should be followed by ALL human beings, not just Americans.

Yes indeedy....the rest of the world can learn a lot from Enron and the people selling sub-prime mortgages   

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

The issue of BS, BA, BEng is often a confusing thing from country to country.  When I came to Australia, some of my first interviewers asked what the BS and MS degrees meant, because the equivalent degrees here alway end in Eng.  They wanted to be sure they weren't hiring a scientist.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

DHD, not to be mean but the phrase "jack of all trades but master of none" comes to mind.  Which is good and bad.  Good because generalist and can find more work than a specialist.  However, the specialist will make more than the generalist.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

you should or could learn a CAD tool like SW or Pro/E and get hired immediately via contract work.

Bart Brejcha    Chicago
DESIGN-ENGINE|EDUCATION
http://www.proetools.com
surfacing and Pro/CABLE training
 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
To Twoballcane:

Yes, I am definitely a generalist.  For better or worse, I will always be, but I think of myself more as a "Jack of All Trade, Master of Some"

Eventually, I will operate my own business, whether it's strictly engineering related or not, but before then I would like to get some experience in the corporate world.  Then I'll start hiring the "Masters" of the specific trades I need.

To proetools:

What are the benefits/drawbacks of SolidWorks and Pro/E?
I have had some experience working on site plans in AutoCAD with a Civil design firm.  Now I'm more interested in drawing in 3D for more 'product development' related stuff.  Would that be Solid Works?

Thanks again, all.

Cheers,
DHD

 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Even tho Solidworks has come a long ways in several years...  the workforce has invested in Pro/E already...   Design engine only owns one seat of SW and invest ourselves and our training in Pro/ENGINEER because that seams where the jobs are.  plus if you know Pro/E it's easier to learn solidworks.  Its not the same in the reverse.  

I suggest you educate yourself with the product design firms with website such as core77.com  

If you know Pro/E (and contact the correct contract agencies) your phone will ring a lot.

 

Bart Brejcha    Chicago
DESIGN-ENGINE|EDUCATION
http://www.proetools.com
surfacing and Pro/CABLE training
 

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

I would only do application engineering if that was the last possible job...

SolidWOrks, Pro/E, Inventor, Catia...Etc are similar for basic uses and are used for product development. I have used Pro/E, Inventor, and Catia for 3D and you can cross training pritty easily. Everyone has their personal favorite.

The only thing with learning drafting stuff is that you can getting grouped in the Drafter/Designer category. Although hopefully a good boss with know the difference and make a separation between drafter/designer and Design Engineer.  I could rant on about the dynamics of this relationship, since i an in a cubical with two drafters and 4 design engineers, but i will spire you.

As noted in some of the other posts, you dont seem to be from the US or CAN, however, would you have the equivalent of an Professional Engineering Exam you could take so give you that extra star on your resume?

Where are you looking for jobs that your having such a hard time with your resume?   Sadly Location and Demand are everything.
 

Official DIPPED Member -
Drank in PP Every Day  

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

I think I wanted to spare you not spire you... smile

Cheers

Official DIPPED Member -
Drank in PP Every Day  

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

Gymneh,

I think he is from the US.  His degree is from Lafayette in Pennsylvania.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

thanks,

 got confused by all the talk of BA's at English Uni's

that being settled...

Can you take your FE?

Official DIPPED Member -
Drank in PP Every Day  

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

If it's engineering, then systems engineering may be where you need to set your sights.  It encompasses the lower disciplines, such as hardware and software, and takes the top-level view of a product (or system).

I wouldn't have thought engineering management was a likely first port of call (except, perhaps, on the civil engineering side) without some 'producing' experience (say, a couple of years) - if you've got management potential then most half-way decent employers should recognize that and come up with a 'development' program that heads in that direction.

Project Management is another option.  Some companies will insist that PMs come from a discipline background, whereas others tend to regard it a different specialization and prefer people with a business background who are capable of getting to grips with the issues (or at least get to know who the techies to trust are).

I also wouldn't worry too much about what your degree is called.  The major point is to work out your strengths and sell them.  For example, my degree is in Astrophysics; not an obvious choice for an engineer maybe, but when I went through what I'd learned (computing, electronics, mechanical engineering, RF, optics, thermodynamics, solid-state theory, maths, etc) and how it could apply to both present and future engineering work, I didn't have any problems getting job offers.   Attitude, particularly flexibility of thought, is a key factor.

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

(OP)
To Hokie:  Yes, I went to Lafayette.  You didn't go there, did you?  Is your first name Matt?

To Gymmeh:  I actually had never realized you could just go ahead and take the FE.  I thought you had to already sort of be apprenticing with a firm.  I believe I am qualified to take it, now that I've looked at the info.  Seems like a good idea no matter what route I take.

As for the Solidworks / Pro/E thing...  I do feel a bit like I might be pigeon-holed if I tried that path.  I've looked at some demos and both programs seem very cool, but I think I would get bored with that kind of work after only a year or two.  At that point, I might not be in a position to move up.  That being said, maybe it is a good idea to pursue the management track directly.  I am thinking I want to be involved with product design on a macro-level, and managers definitely are on that level, so why not try that?  It has seemed to me in the past, though, that typically I would need some 'corporate' experience before moving into a management position.

There are Engineering Management programs at the local University.  Any opinions on something like that?

To excognito:  I think you might have it right with the Systems Engineering approach.  I can still be more of a generalist, but get some hands-on experience, as well.  Then, I would be poised for a move into managing.

Wow.  I never thought I would get some many responses.
Thanks to everyone.  

DHD

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

DrHoneydew, have you thought of trying to get into product testing / commissioning? You'd need some technical knowledge, an eye for detail, a good understanding of requirements and be able to communicate the results to a variety of levels.

Could also link into the systems engineering that someone suggested earlier. Have a look at INCOSE as they are starting to generate the basis for professional standing in systems engeineering.

Cheers, HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

RE: What kind of engineer am I??

you take the FE right out of College then you take the PE after number of years.

Depending on the company if you are in engineering you can be placed in management positions, for example commissioning.
But instead of managing office staff you would be managing, welders/techs/machinists/etc.

Not sure about the engineering management classes... I have never had a boss that did that,
 

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