Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
(OP)
Hello, it's me again, here, asking questions, anyway, let's get to it.
I graduated last summer and got a job as an E&I engineer in this company last November, so literally I have been working for this company for a year now, I get paid well lets say less than £20k a year as a graduate.
This is my first permanent job, I have no clue how much I should be paid and if I should get a pay rise after a year's working experience.
Well my company has the reputation of under paying people, therefore a lot of people have left the company especially in my department, even my department manager is leaving end of the month =/
So I feel a bit shy to ask for a pay rise, I work very hard, yet ask lots of questions (don't know if its good or bad)
I don't want to find another job yet, I would like to stay in the company and learn. And I really wouldn't threat my company to give me pay rise or I will leave, because I really don't want to leave.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
I graduated last summer and got a job as an E&I engineer in this company last November, so literally I have been working for this company for a year now, I get paid well lets say less than £20k a year as a graduate.
This is my first permanent job, I have no clue how much I should be paid and if I should get a pay rise after a year's working experience.
Well my company has the reputation of under paying people, therefore a lot of people have left the company especially in my department, even my department manager is leaving end of the month =/
So I feel a bit shy to ask for a pay rise, I work very hard, yet ask lots of questions (don't know if its good or bad)
I don't want to find another job yet, I would like to stay in the company and learn. And I really wouldn't threat my company to give me pay rise or I will leave, because I really don't want to leave.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Cuttie





RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Contact the other grads in your class for comparisons.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I forget the originator but here is a statement I remember.
"It is not that you get what you deserve, it is that you get what you negotiate."
Regards,
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Definitely i could not say whether u need a rise or not as you dont want to say some approximate figure close to ur real salary.
Dont hide the truth to lawyer, Doctor and Eng-Tips members (especially if you expect some useful tips).
Less than 20000 could be 12000(severely underpaid) or could be 19500(somewhat, OK!!!).
But,I suggest dont ask for rise. Reasons...
1. Your company is reputed for underpaying.
2. Your manager is also leaving himself, perhaps due to pay issues.
3. It is time for Layoff not for pay rise. Dont let your management know your dissatisfaction.
If you think that your job is fine, coworkers are great and good work environment then stay back, learn and get ready for boom time to jump ship.
In my experience, it never went well with management and it spoiled the work environment. Be careful and All the best.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Of course, UK companies discourage employees discussing their salaries amongst themselves because in some cases the stated reason is true, the recipient is being paid better than his co-workers and if they all want his money then, well, there is only so much money in the pot to share round. In other cases, it is a useful ploy to keep everyone on a low salary thinking it is the norm.
Now I have no idea what a graduate engineer should earn in the UK these days so it will be interesting to see what others in your position, similar industry etc. can say about it (though how many on this site are young recently graduated engineers? I wonder what is the mean length of time for an engineer to discover such sites?) but less than £20,000 sounds like a good place to be, I mean, there is only up from there.
Now of course, when you were interviewed salary and prospects should have been discussed and if the employer didn't raise it then you ought to have but, yes, first job you don't want to sound too grasping nor unrealistic and you want it to appear that the job is the thing. Well, first job it probably is.
Now we reach an important milestone, 12 months on the job and within that period there ought to have been a performance review.
At one time no one noticed you or cared about you unless you failed to show up for a few weeks or you died on the job but these days an enlightened management are supposed to sit down once a year with each employee and exchange ideas, appraise each other and discuss the future.
This is now the time to really discuss "what's in it for me?".
You've lasted a year.
They didn't let you go when they could without penalty, we'll assume there have been no serious disagreements and that your work is at least adequate.
With one year in you now also start to have something to put in your CV that others can look at and measure.
You start to become a marketable commodity.
So when you get your review (I assume you haven't had it yet or you would have said and said what they said about you and you about them) you should be prepared to put this on the table.
In the UK I'm not sure what available data there is on salaries.
What you can do is look at the situations vacant and see what is being offered both generally and with respect to your own experience and within your industry more particularly.
In other words, you will need to do some research.
You won't get all the answers here, just some suggestions. Probably including some that say young grads expect too much etc etc. and some that say employers exploit them too much.
The most obvious thing to say is that you may never get a good salary at your first employer who will think of you as "the graduate" for the next 20 years if you let them, and what you really have to do is find out how long is the optimum length of stay before you can safely move without it being considered too soon or too late.
I think you may need to consider that the only path to a good salary is to be prepared to move on within a couple of years.
Cynically, while we all want to say that that first job is where you gained practical experience of being a working engineer, for many it is simply to have something solid to put in a CV so as to move on as a young new engineer with some experience and a track record.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Unfortunately I'm the only young female graduate in my department, all the rest are experienced older gentlemen. I get paid just tiny bit below 20.
We recently lost 2 very good & experienced E&I engineers because of pay issue, my manager (the one that's leaving) is going to have an annual sit-down with me, but he told me not to ask him for a pay rise, as even himself is leaving over pay issue.
I'm not greedy, I never thought about asking for a pay rise this year, but one of the experienced colleagues who has always looked after me in the past year told me that I should ask for a pay rise. Apparently he's getting paid more than double of what I'm getting.
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
It's generally common practice in the UK to be offered an annual pay-rise in line with inflation, but ss you clearly work in a salt mine, or some horse dung collection facility, then dont expect much. It's hardly worth leaving the job though until you've had a few years experience.
corus
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Based on other places I interviewed with at the time most of them said some kind of review at 6 months with possible raise, some may have been at the year mark.
Either way, unless your company is in real survival mode not getting at least a modest pay raise doesn't sound right. And of course if your company is doing that bad then you need to be looking for a new position.
Your colleage who you seem to respect told you to ask for a raise, so you could talk to your boss and say something like 'I know you told me not to ask you for a raise but who should I speak to determine what I need to do to progress my career and compensation'.
Good luck.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
An average annual raise is ~4%. If you are looking for more than this, I hope you get a good review. Is it common knowledge that your direct supervisor is leaving? If so, I think it would be appropriate for you to approach the next higher-up in the chain. I would raise the issue that with several others leaving your department you see a great opportunity to take-on added responsibility, and are willing to do so if compensated accordingly. If there are plans to replace the two bodies, they may have more work experience than you, but you'll have more company experience than them. That should be worth something.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
How it gets shared out depends on each department manager.
Some will get very little and others even less.
Now, your manager is leaving because for his own salary issues.
It is most likely that if they are to replace him then the new manager is going to have to be paid substantially more than the outgoing manager (or they won't find anyone to accept the job or if they do, he will be as much use as a chocolate teapot) and that is likely to come from the available pot of money which means even less to share around.
Probably no one higher up the tree will discuss money with you but will declare that it is an issue for the new man when he takes over.
He will have no idea who should be rewarded and who not. He may be aghast at how little money there is to share out, late, and will probably adopt a Solomon like policy of an equal % raise all round and declare his hands are tied, blame on the outgoing manager etc. etc. He will hesitate, as his first act on joining a new company, to go ask for more money to pay his staff.
He may have to look at staff reductions to pay his own salary (how many people have experienced departmental "re-structuring" following the appointment of a new manager...especially if they can blame everything on the outgoing incumbent?)
About the best you can hope for is that review notes will give the new man some clues.
I'd suggest getting your CV out there ASAP.
So you don't yet have an ideal amount of experience, so what? If you don't ask you don't get.
Think of it as interview experience and if someone does offer you a good alternative, you can choose to take it or not.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Maybe, but probably not.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
My thirty year career has been in oil and gas / petrochem and a bit of mining. The pecking order of companies within these process industriesgoes like this - manufacturers, EPC Contractors and Operating Companies. The salary profiles follow the same order, often with quite large quantum jumps in between.
My own experience started like yours - but in manufacturing pressure vessels and heat exchangers. After two years of that (in hindsight, I should have waited another year or two), I joined an EPC contractor with a salary of over double my manufacturing salary. This was a different league.
Your, like my, stint in manufacturing gives you an opportunity to really know your product. As I recall in an earlier post, yours is metering?
Should you take the next step up to an EPC job, after learning your product, you now have the oppportunity to bring something to the table with input to specifications and evaluations. Metering skids are big ticket items and their design and selection have enormous implications to other disciplines, such as the size of an offshore plarform! The reward to you, apart from bigger money, is that, having learnt your product, you now have an opportunity to learn how everything fits together - what other disciplines need to interact, and gain experience in other aspects of E&I, that may appeal to you.
Finally, having gained multi-discipline project experience, will will become attractive to the operating companies. Although say, Shell recruit straight from university, those guys are groomed for management from day one, whereas they always have a need for experienced engineers to join their projects.
This sounds like a "history of the world" rave, but I think it helps to illustrate that, what may be of concern now is small bickies tomorrow. A case in point. Recently I earnt in two weeks more than I earnt in my entire first year!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Do I remember that you work in Oil & Gas? That's a rich industry and has a reputation for paying well. Although I'm not in O&G, pay-wise there are some parallels with the utilities. Based on utilities I would expect a recent graduate with a year's experience to be earning more than that, probably in the mid 20's. The biggest percentage rises you will ever get are usually in the first few years, either from a far-sighted employer who wants to hold on to the staff which it is investing time and effort in training, or by other employers who are looking to hijack their competitor's investment in training by recruiting their staff. In your position I'd be looking for jobs and going for interviews. You don't have to accept a job offer and you may find that you get a good offer out of it. Don't use a job offer as a negotiating tool with Personnel: a good personnel dept. will know what the competitors are offering and should be at least keeping pace with them. You shouldn't need to hold a gun to their heads just to maintain a competitive salary (although the gun idea has a certain appeal
Consider the present UK economic climate - some industries are going to be hit harder than others. In my opinion O&G and utilities are two of the safer ones to be in.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Yes working in O&G industry, I'm working on a gas metering system at the moment; big boss just put me on a training course near Leeds (this will be my first business trip, so excited :D ), he said when I came back I should be able to teach others what I would learn, I will try my best.
And yes, the experience is priceless; I do feel I learned more in this one year working than the 4 years university study.
I started last year 1st of Nov, so I think if I do get offered a pay raise, it should be coming end of this month with my payslip?
Line manager (the one is leaving) gave me pre-appraisal form to fill in, it's quite difficult, and I just don't know what to put on there.
I don't want to leave here, everyone is very nice to me, boss likes me too, plus I would like to get more experiences.
x
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Of course you'd like to think they'd tell you a bit in advance. My currently employer though tells you your raise afer you've already been earning it a week or two, just before your first pay pack it with it in, which just seems ridiculous.
One thought, as you started so late in the year, are they going to try and get your pay raise on the typicaly "1st of year" schedule? This may not be too unreasonable but they should tell you as much.
This is effectively what my last place in the UK did, but they gave me a smallish raise after only 3 months at year end, they didn't make me wait the year +.
You definitely need to ask for some clarification on the issue, how forcefull you are in actually pushing for a raise is up to you. At the end of the day, you can vote with your feet.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I would think 20K is probably a little on the low side. I would say it is not unreasonable to expect a pay rise after the first year, because without one it is likely new starting graduates will be getting paid more than you.
Use you appraisal as a proactive tool, identify what you have learned during your year and how you have expanded your skills base so you can demonstrate you are not the same engineer as a year ago. Also identify where you need to focus on for improving yourself and set targets for the future. Discuss it with your line manager and agree the way forward.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
The first company I worked for was a revolving door. The experience was great, but the working conditions and pay were less than acceptable. I asked about a raise after getting many positive compliments from customers, but recieved an explanation on why they couldn't pay me more. So I began looking elsewhere. The second company offered me a 40% increase. I jumped ship and went to the second company. That company had an excellent pay increase plan and they let you know when your raise would come, and how to get the most.
After a while I got really tired of living in the Northern U.S. and constant travel so I began looking into some of the companies I had done contract work for while I was field serviceman. One offered me a significant increase and the opportunity to live in a better part of the country. That's where I am now and quite satisfied with my job and salary.
Some companies recognize performance and reward you for it. If you deserve more and work for a company that does not recognize performance, get your experience and go elsewhere.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is broken, fix it. If it isn't broken, I'll soon fix that.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
You should be able to TELL your manager that you deserve a pay rise (if indeed you do) Tot up a list of tasks given and completed (time taken etc) Demonstrate your hard work and show that you add VALUE to the company. If they decide that it'll be "jam tomorrow" then you've at least got a good basis for your CV to tout for another job!
By the way:
1) Don't be shy about asking for a raise because your management will take advantage of that; and
2) NEVER think that asking questions is a bad thing.
Good luck HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Well that's a bit off the topic. I haven't asked for a pay rise yet, just want to wait till end of the month, see if I will get one.
Good weekend x
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
You started this thread on the 4th November, so why not wait till the end of the month?
Allow them a fait accomplis, why not?
At least you will have the pleasure of seeing your boss giving a great Gallic shoulder shrug.
Let's see; what are the options?
(a) He has absolute discretion and unlimited resources
(b) He has a pot of money allocated to him by the Finance director and its up to him to make the best use of it.
If it is (a) then sure, wait and see.
However, if it is (b) you are going to be desperately disappointed.
Let me explain again.
If he only has a meagre pot of money to share out, he will have tried to be a Solomon about how to share it out except that he will share it based on what is best for him, not his employees.
The trick for him is to know who is going to sit quietly like a mouse and take whatever comes their way and who is going to make his life a misery either directly or by voting with their feet and getting him in bad with HR and the upper management.
He is human, after all.
Why give a big award to someone who wouldn't say boo to a goose, or is unlikely to be able to easily get another job when he knows there are some others, less deserving, maybe, but with a greater nuisance value and where the money may do him the most good.
If he has you pegged as a Mouse, that's it, only a few crumbs of cheese for you.
After the event all he can say is (and I think they are given a script by HR for this annual pageant):
- that it is out of his hands now
- he did his best and as a matter of fact he was able to give you a little bit more than some others already (but don't let anyone know he has looked after you or you'll get him in trouble)
- times are hard, there is a recession/depression, we're all having to tighten our belts, some divisions didn't get an award at all
- its more than his jobs worth
- he has no control over the total amount, just its distribution
- he is far from happy with his own award
Blah blah blah.He may then get tough and say things like there are plenty of people without jobs who'd love to be where you are now and on.
If you want cliches, pay awards time is when to look for them.
Now, if you really want to get a pay rise the time to speak is now, before its all finally divided up and gone. You have to, by asking in advance, show that this could become an issue.
If he thinks you are going to
- leave
- become unhappy and unproductive
- make his life a misery
He needs to know now while he can do something about it, not later once the deed is done.[li]become an activist and stir everyone up[/i]
Of your two options you lose nothing on either option by asking now, by signalling him that you expect a good award. Give him a chance. If you don't ask, you won't get.
On the other hand, by waiting, you eliminate one of your options and risk witnessing the great crocodile tears impersonation.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I feel its really unfair, because I just found out a colleague's salary, I know its not my businese, but this E&I engineer once confessed to someone that he's used to be a builder before came to England from Africa, and he asks me questions quite often, because he didn't even have much basic computerµsoft package skills, but he's getting paid 10k more than me, he was here as a contractor, then he applied for the permanent position after worked here for 3 months, he started about the same time as me, now 5 of his family members have moved to england, I was wondering how he could afford to look after a non-working wife and 3 kids with little wage like me getting...
It just annoys me to find out he got paid so much more :( I have worked on 3 projects independantly, and he hasn't even done one small project that he took over from another contractor! Even my manager thinks he's not that "helpful". Well I guess I can't really say that to my boss when I ask for a raise, but it's just unfair! I also found out that I'm getting paid similar as the apprentice. I'm really not the greedy time, but all those unfairness and discouragement make me losing motivation at working ...
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
No, let me guess, you hadn't been there long enough to warrant a rise. But you probably didn't know to ask then and didn't even know an award had occurred.
But, if you started on a trial period at a basic salary and it didn't get increased then, you should hope to get one somewhere in the 18 months between starting and the normal pay review e.g. on your anniversary date. But that date is now and they are putting you off.
You might ask "why do they do that?" You should get the right money from the start; if you are no good, they aren't going to keep you on so what is their problem? But if they do keep you on, then they've got you trapped on a low salary and they can find all sorts of excuses not to give you a raise.
Of course, for a first job you are in a buyer's market. Experience and confidence put you in a seller's market. That first year is a very significant difference for you between being an unknown both to your employer and to yourself to someone who knows what they can do.
Review/appraisal time is exactly when you need to discuss this if you never discuss it any other time. You must always discuss this early enough for it to have some chance of influencing the outcome. April is too late. How long before April do they decide the budget?
They may say they can't discuss it but really, all they can't do is make a promise. They should listen because one of them has to put forward his forecast for what he thinks he is going to need to spend next year, not just on computers, cars, expense accounts, power heat and light, equipment but also people. How should they know what to ask for if they don't discuss it it?
If not now, when? When is it too late to affect the outcome? get them to tell you when you can discuss it and when it is too late to influence events. Be searching.
Of course, this is about as near a taboo subject as you can find, but just because managers don't like to discuss it there is no reason why you shouldn't put your case and make it plain what your expectations are.
Make them explain very carefully why you didn't get an award last April, and why not on your anniversary date.
Get them to explain how the pay awards are decided.
If they aren't going to put a figure on it now you don't have to either but they have to be made aware that you are not going to sit back and after 18months on a trial persons salary get a standard "cost of living" increase.
If you are beginning to get a sense that you are going to get shafted come April, then get your CV out there and start looking, you have between now and then to get the job offers rolling in.
Oh yes, so someone less experienced than you is getting paid more than you?
Lesson one: life isn't fair but, learn from it.
If people who are less good than you earn more there is a reason, they know how to ask.
Also, you are better off if you can ask from a strong position. Get that CV out there and go to interviews. You can always say no to a job you have been offered but and it getting offers allows you to be bold if you don't find a job you like. If you do, then take it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
If your manager says that your appraisal is not the time to talk about a pay rise then put a slot in his diary for the following day and (you guessed it!) talk about a pay rise then...for your manager there is no good time so you will have to push yourself forward and tackle the issue. As JMW says be firm to get the info you need to make a decision.
One word of caution, by all means get your CV out (always a good idea to see what's out there) and go to interviews but if someone offers you a job (and you use it as leverage in negotiating pay) be prepared for your manager to say ok take it. You have to be mentally prepared to follow through with your ultimatum.
In the meantime, don't let it eat away at you, put in 100% - remember that if you do leave a good reference will stand you in good stead and if you don't burn any bridges you could always return at a later stage (on a higher salary of course!
Good luck, HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
The more I read about your employer the closer I come to saying 'Find a new job and leave them'. My impression is that you are under-valued, perhaps a little under-remunerated, and in an industry which is short of people that is a short-sighted outlook for an employer. Reading your posts I think you also lack confidence at work although you seem confident enough to talk to us on this site. That's maybe something to be aware of when you go for interviews: confidence counts for a lot. I don't think you will have a problem finding a new job in O&G, especially in Furry Boot Town. After a year you are likely settled and feel fairly comfortable in your current job, and I guess that is the only thing which is keeping you there. Time to move on - learn from the good and the bad where you are, stay on friendly terms with your colleagues, and find a new employer.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I did get a pay rise last April for £500... My manager told me they try to give everyone a minimum raise, and the "leftover" money will be given to the ones they have "promised".
It's easier to write than to speak, yes it is true, I don't feel confident enough to ask for a rise, I somehow feel thankful to him for giving me the job at the first place, this was my first job interview after leaving university, and then I got the job.
I'm always friendly to my colleagues, I keep my feelings to myself and eng-tips forum :)
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
And that is your problem. They had a vacancy to fill, you were a good fit for that vacancy. They want to pay you as the recent graduate with no experience, but you have moved on and are now becoming one of the experienced people. You will have learned much in that first year, percentage-wise you may have learned more this last year than you will in any future year, and you are both more valuable and more marketable. Don't undervalue yourself - companies employ HR departments to undervalue their staff!
Get your head in the recruitment press this weekend and start applying for jobs!
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I myself don't believe in using a job offer as leverage but as a source of security.
You should expect your company to reward you properly. You may find that saying "I've got this offer, so make me a counter offer." is a poor policy. They won't like being blackmailed. They will get their money back some other way and may even couner offer simply t get you to stay longe enough so they can find another amenable graduate looking for a first job.
On the other hand, if you know you can get other jobs you will have a sense of your value to other people and you should use it as a source of confidence in your dealings with your employer. There is always the chance that you will get a job offer you like and could care less about your current employer.
Do not let feelings for co-workers affect your legitimate concerns for your own future.
Getting that first job is the hardest and often the least rewarded because you are an unknown to the employer and to yourself.
Not any more. 12-18months is a useful period and hear what Scotty UK says.
You are now a marketable commodity and far less of an unknown. You need to make that work for you.
I also agree with Scotty when he says the more he hears the more he wants to say get out of there.
The great thing about Eng-tps and the internet is the access to good advice and good opportunities. I would hate to guess where I could be now if I'd had this sort of experience speaking to me when I was one or two years into my first job.
I know I wouldn't have stayed there eleven years because I liked what I was doing and liked the people, I'd have realised I could equally like doing something else for some one else and like the new colleagues as much as the old.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Even if your company has no pay grades, they likely still have the same concept, and may be more willing to entertain the idea of a large raise if you can show a clear shift in your responsibilites.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Are you a resident of this
sceptredseptic isle too? All this time I hadn't realised. It was the use of 'CV' which gave you away.----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
yes, true, I'm sad to say.
I usually, for our colonial cousin's benefit, try to use the term "resume" though I occasional lapse, but in this case I detected that Cuttie is also a denizen of these blighted lands.
Well, "CV" used to be appropriate but I guess that is another of those Latin terms that Salisbury Council has banned as being discriminatory... in favour of resume? But, no that comes from the French, so what can we call it in English? Anyway, since West Sussex hasn't declared itself on either side in the Latin wars I hopefully won't have a hit squad arriving here to sort me out for racial discrimination.
In my defence I should say that I am a dual National, US and UK (though my US passport is now out of date which will get me a real b*ll***ing from the embassy) - my dad let his passport lapse for 30 years and got the public enemy no 1 treatment when he finally renewed it. UK passports? ... well I could tell some stories about Lunar House.
Doesn't that say it all.
More honest would have been to say "We try to give every the minimum raise we can get away with" or, more honest still, "We try not to give raises at all." (I worked for a company that blithely told everyone that there would be no raises this year, due to recession., espcially in aerospace etc etc and then sold the aerospace division for £42million and shared the dosh out amongst the shareholders without even a word of thanks to the starving workforce.)
Still £500 is pretty impressive, some manager has stuck his neck on the block to deny that £500 to the shareholders and that's a risky thing to do. Let's see, that's all of £41.66 per month (plus the cost of the NI contributions) even though, after tax it is enough to cover a cup of coffee nearly every day.
Er, and what did I say about "promises" this means they have found some extra for the nuisances, the ones who will have made their lives miserable. Be nice to know the size of the pot this £500 came from and how man it was shared between. Your manager would have you believe he had £1000 for 20 people and you got special treatment.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Shame you didn't put out the information about getting the $500 after 6 months a bit sooner. Frankly having to wait a full year from that pay raise isn't too unreasonable/unusual.
It now seems the main problem is you aren't clear on the ground rules of how & when you get raises etc.
So step one, ask for a clear explanation on this.
Also ask what you need to do to be one of the 'promised ones'. You may want to be delicate with the wording but fundamentally you want to know what you have to do to get a more than cost of living adjustment/the one you think you merit.
If you don't like the answers you get then spend more time looking for a new place.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
You must be more tolerant of poor employers than I am. In today's recruitment market for O&G, the heavy process industries and the utilities, employers need to be looking after their people and actively trying to hold on to them. I really don't think that is happening with this outfit in Aberdeen. There are too many companies who are prepared to make the effort to waste time working for the ones who aren't.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Still fundamentally I'm with you that if you don't like it, find somewhere else. In my old industry that was sometimes easier said than done, sounds like in O & G it's a bit more likely.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Twenty years ago my industry and its cousins were taking an absolute battering between economic problems, years of union militancy, complacent management, and a government hellbent on destroying the UK's entire industrial base. If you had a job at all you were grateful, and the employers could treat staff like vermin, pay a pittance with less than a COLA rise and get away with it because the alternative was a long spell in the dole queue. That old adage 'as ye have sown, ye shall reap' is true and now those same employers and their successors are on the back foot with a desperate shortage of talent as a result of their policies in the past. They need to actively work to hang on to staff, and many of them haven't a clue how to do it. I'm all for working hard and being fair - I really don't know any other way - but that is definitely a two-way deal and if an employer doesn't want to play by those rules then I won't work for them. Today it's much much easier for me to replace them than it is for them to replace me.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
i wasn't advocating using a job offer as leverage either - hence the caution. Holding people over a barrel never goes down well but it's nice to have an offer in your back pocket if negotiations grind to a halt.
Personally i've been in the situation where my boss has said "if you're not happy then find something else" so i did, got an offer from anther company and handed in my resignation. On my last day (just after the surprise leaving gift...) he asked me to reconsider and stay on. Needless to say i declined - i'd already made the mental leap to the next job.
Cheers HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
And, of course, when you tell them you are leaving, to take another position, you hear the old "We were going to do this and that for you."
If it takes me leaving to get the cheese flowing then working here is not a good thing.
Not sure how your field is faring with-in the economic ballyhoo that seems to be approaching/here. If you are comfortable, you should probably stick it out for a little while.
More money is not necessarily more happiness.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Don't let the b*****ds get you down.
Your colleage may be performing favors for your boss in private.
Your colleage may be a hog smoker.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Don't cry about it, start fixing the problem instead.
You've had a lot of good advice earlier in this thread from jmw plus the usual load of crap from me
Best of luck whatever you decide.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I finally had enough courage to talk with my manager, he said he was glad I come and talk to him; he said too many people had problems, but instead of talking to him, those people chose to carry on with the problems, then fed up and leave.
I first asked about what should I achieve to get a proper pay raise, he said the pay review is at April, he would like me to speak to him about pay raise then, so I decided to be straight forward with him about my personal feeling of this unfair situation, he said he had no doubt that I made huge progress and he had very positive feedback from clients regarding my work, he would investigate the situation and get back to me within two weeks, I don't know what's going to happen...
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Now you need to see if he will turn good intentions into good deeds.
If he seems to think that April is when the awards are and that April is the time to discuss it, he probably lives in a different world to the rest of us (but maybe that is how things are done there) and come April, when it is too late to change the budget, he may suddenly be apologetic and sympathetic but unable to deliver the necessary raise because he did not allow time to ensure adequate budgeting.
Just a question, did you have your appraisal yet or is that still to come?
If you already had it, were these kind words expressed at that time and recorded in your appraisal? If not, why not? Try and get it added, these are important comments and they should be recorded.
You are entitled to see a copy of that appraisal so you can raise any concerns you may have about its accuracy. You certainly need it to reflect what he has said to you about your work.
Now the contingency planning.
You do need to devote some time to testing the market place and going to some interviews. Try and get job offers, and these don't necessarily have to be jobs you seriously would consider taking but employers who would seriously consider employing you.
Job offers will tell you what other people think you are worth, you will never win any arguments with HR or management about why you should be paid more because of what "the going rate is". I'm not saying use them to leverage a pay rise, simply use them to know what you are worth and, hopefully, to provide you with the knowledge you can go out and get another job and ideally to provide you with a job offer on hand come April.
By the way, appraisal time is also when you ask about extra training courses and so on. Anything that will help increase your value as an employee both to your employer, who will pay for them, and to any potential employers who love to get your skills as paid for by someone else.
Good luck. Oh, come April, try to remember to let us know how it all came out.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Are you sure that your African colleague is not the cousin a minister or deputy in his home country and that his emplyoment in the company is just to get some overseas contracts?
My experience
I never felt extremely underpaid until find my current job. Previously I worked in another company with an official expatriate package, which I felt adequate, despite having meagre salary increases (average 2.5% per year for 5 years) and reduced bonus. Then I moved to another company, new responsibilities, new industry. And in the first year I got a bonus almost double than I ever received in the previous company. And now I am earning 35% more, even if I lost some of my expatriate perks. Nevertheless, I don't feel that my previous company was so bad and definitively was a great school for me to learn a lot of things that I applied in my current job which made me shine. So, my point is, if your company is known in the field as underpaying the staff but on the other hand a great school, then wait for one more year or so and then start looking. It is a question of time that someone with the money starts chasing you.
Good luck.
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Well after I came back from new year, my manager talked to me, he said he had made the owner of the company aware of this situation, after all he is the one making decisions, he told my manager that I have to be patient and wait, but till when? No one knows...
I'm already working on my CV, but I don't know where to get some (free) professional advice once my CV is done...
I only worked a year and a bit, should I put my employment history before my education? Or still highlights my education on my CV?
And just where can I go to find a job as an E&I eng working in O&G industrial in the UK, I have done some searching on Google, not much luck..
Thanks.
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I don't mind having a look over your CV if we can figure a way of not infringing the site rules by posting email addresses. Obviously I'm not 'professional' in the sense of being a recruiter (there's an oxymoron in the making... 'professional recruiter'
As for looking for work, the power industry is desperately short of skilled people with any experience, and a year in O&G certainly won't do you any harm. It is also about as secure an industry as you'll find in these troubled times.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
My sister inlaw who used to do CV/Resume prep as part of her job just re-formatted mine. I'm not sure about some of the changes she made, in fact I need to get back to it.
There have been other threads about resume/CV format etc., take a look or if need be start a new thread. You may want to make it clear that you're in the UK and it's called a CV not a resume, or you may confuse some US posters.
Definitely start sending out your CV/looking elsewhere. You've given them their chance, now you need to look around in ernest.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
As for the format, there are as many ways to lay it out as there are people. Some people prefer to have no formatting at all but I'm not against formatting per se : often plain text CVs are simply awful to read. Any formatting should be fairly restrained, should give structure to the document and make it easier to read. Good grammar, correct punctuation, and correct spelling are absolutely vital. I can overlook most things but a spelling mistake on a CV ensures that it goes in the bin.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
It would be great if you could have a look at my CV when it's done, Scotty. I think my graduate CV was actually quite good; my professor helped me with it. I'm writing my new CV using the same layout.
As for the spelling... Microsoft word can check them. :)
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Regarding googling for jobs - this is maybe not the best route (too many hits to scroll through) but try looking through publications like The Engineer, Process Engineering etc. Are you going for chartered status - if so then ask your mentor or local members if they know of openings.
Good luck, HM
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Even if you've only been working a year, that experience counts, so I would suggest putting that first.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I got a pay raise, a small one (8% of what I used to get), starting this month, but backed dated to July 2008, manager also told me that he would try to get me another pay raise in April, the pay review month.
But the business is really not looking good, we haven't had a new project for months, and I'm finishing off my current project... my line manager told me that if don't get anything by July, everyone might have to be prepared for redundancy. Ahh that worries me...
Hopefully things will get better.
Cuttie
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I think.
Actually, in this climate, and given all that went before, I have no idea how to read this.
I mean, OK, a pay rise is a pay rise and a promise of more to come is worth next to nothing unless and until it happens or doesn't happen.
But how do you read it when it is 8% and backdated to July 2008 and in the present climate and specifically when you say you have no new projects?
Is it the grand gesture?
Maybe your boss knows he is for the chop and putting two fingers to the top brass, maybe you were only earning $10k a year to begin with in which case it is a meaningless gesture only, or what?
It's that backdating bit that worries.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
I employ "shop floor" operatives (UK) and they earn only slightly less than you.
We also do stuff for O&G company, and the machine operators there are on more than you (with overtime).
Employed a sales guy last November on £40K + benefits too.
Suggest you do the ScottyUK and jmw route. You say you don't want to leave. Believe me, you will surely leave at some point - may as well be now - just make sure it's on your terms!
btw - In my previous lives, I never moved jobs for less than 20% extra - often more was obtained. IMHO, it's the only way to get substantial pay rises. Sticking with one employer for a long time is a sure way to get (in real terms) a reduction in pay.
I speak from 40+ years in engineering in the UK - its pits.
Cheers
Harry
www.tynevalleyplastics.co.uk
RE: Do I deserve a pay rise? Should I ask for one? If so, how? Thanks
Long story short, I stayed put, made myself invaluable THEN brought up a competitive offer from another company. I recieved a good pay raise. I'm still not "well" paid, but all of the auto industry is shutting down around us and all of the other high paid engineers are now looking for jobs.
Leaving for a pay raise is all well and good, but in this current economy, job security is top priority. However, this is rust belt Ohio, not the UK.