Boron Nitride engine oil additive
Boron Nitride engine oil additive
(OP)
I'm thinking of using a BN additive for engine oil. I've already used a MoS2 additive with synthetic oil and am using currently using 5w40 diesel synthetic mixed with 10w40 semisynth already containing MoS2 and probably other friction and/or antiwear additive. Same manufacturer, they say it's ok to mix any of their oils but to expect lower performance if you add a lower grade lubricant to a higher grade.
htt p://www.li qui-moly.d e/liquimol y/produktd b.nsf/id/e _3721.html
Should I try it boron nitride or not? Is it any good? Anyone used stuff like this here? Could there be any ill-effects from mixing it with engine oil containing MoS2?
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Should I try it boron nitride or not? Is it any good? Anyone used stuff like this here? Could there be any ill-effects from mixing it with engine oil containing MoS2?





RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
Cera Tec
CERA TEC is a high-tech ceramic wear protection product for all motor oils. CERA TEC reduces friction and wear due to ceramic compounds that withstand extremely high chemical and thermal loads.
Why not just add a little sand to your oil?
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
"Micro ceramic solid lubricant suspension based on hexagonal boron nitride (BN) in mineral oil. The laminar graphite-similar structure reduces friction and wear and prevents direct metal-to-metal contact. The < 0.5 µm particle size guarantees optimal filter flow properties and protects against depositing of solid lubricant particles."
http://w
Like carbon is allotropic, it seems BN is polymorphic. The additive contains the BN polymorph suitable for use as lubricant, not the one suitable for machining tool bits.
Anyone have any experience with this stuff or shall I be the first to have a go? If it's any good I'm thinking of adding it to the tranny as well. But it says that it shouldn't be used with wet clutches, synchro trannies or LSDs.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
P.S. What's the point of idling before shutting off?
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
Other than to provide cooling oil and/or water to the turbo to prevent oil coking, I can't think of one.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
Diesel engines typically have a very long life if serviced regularly with the OEM recommended grades of oil WITH NO EXTRA ADDITVES.
Many user added additives can decrease oil performance in some cases.
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RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
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ACEA B4-98/B3-98 Issue 2 ; API CF ; BMW Longlife-98 ; MB-Freigabe 229.1 ; MB-Freigabe 229.3 ; VW 502.00 / 505.00
that I top off with LM MoS2 Leichtlauf 10w40 semisynthetic:
htt
ACEA A3-98/B3-98 ; API SJ/CF/SH/CF/EC
I'm thinking of going on a 50/50% mix of these two for the nest OCI. I change at 5000~7000 miles.
The dyno oil already contains moly, probably other additives as well. Hence no API SL/SM, Porsche, BMW and other certifications.
No oil consumption but it leaked a little round the filler cap and valve cover when I started using the synthetic, so I topped up with the dyno. The oil hangs around in the engine a very long time, weeks, before mostly draining to the sump so it's a little difficult to tell but I really don't think it's burning any oil.
I'm not really concerned about the additive cost, they say one application every 30000 miles is enough.
I've also bought a bosch filter with an oil retention valve.
This is the reason I started using the additive. The car had stayed in storage for a year when I got it:
Probably the thrust side of the cam. These look better:
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
drwebb, I've never used anything other than moly as a lubricant additive. I'm considering only boron nitride as another.
Also, I buy all my lubricants, additives and fuel additives from Liqui Moly, a German lubricants' company that's been in business for 50 years. They're hardly duralube, slick 50, motor up, prolong, 2+2 or some other shady snake oil brand that are so popular even across the pond.
If you'd care to look on their site you'd find no such things as chlorinated paraffins or PTFE oil additives, and yet they sell everything from engine flush to fuel and injection system flush and a BN additive. I would never have bought anything from them were it the case they sold PTFE or CP. Also, all their lubricants are at least API and ACEA certified. Many/most are also certified by MB, BMW, Porsche, VW, Ford and others. If I'm going to use BN it's going to be CeraTEC from LM or nothing at all.
I apologise in the eventuality this is construed as advertising but I don't care for the undertones. I'm not the one to use fuel line magnets or duralube because of timken tests that sell the sheeple. I've wanted to use Lubrication Engineers :) for gearbox oil ( http://www.le-inc.com/gearbox.jsp ) but they don't cater to where I live.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
As to whether it's good or not, I am unaware of (and the website does not provide) credible data that BN can prevent camshaft wear any better than the soluble chemistries already in formulated engine oils. I also can't think of how it might do it better than PTFE, MoS2, graphite or other solid lubricants. BN is chemically very inert, so as long as the particle sizes are small enough not to load the filter one may expect it will interact with the oil components similarly to soot, dust and other solid contaminants held in suspension by the engine oil dispersants.
FWIW, API and ACEA only certify finished lubricant formulas- they don't cover top treats- and API licensed lubricants will carry the trademarked "donut" or "starburst" symbol. There is a big difference (i.e. $50k-500K) between claiming API 'SX-' or 'CX-performance' and being licensed as having the test data to back it up.
Good luck with your diesel, and be sure to share how your project works out.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
My one ton Dodge turbo diesel has managed quite well for somewhere in the 200,000 mile range (the odo quit at 186,000 four or five years ago) with conventional lubrication and standard service intervals. I've seen several high mileage Cummins/Dodge and one that made ONE MILLION MILES on standard non synthetic engine oil !!!!!
Additives by their nature often fall into the 'snake oil' category.
As I see it, if there was a readily accessible additive to any oil company that would give them an edge, they would in all probability already have it. Tain't rocket science any longer.
Anyway, best of luck, really! Keep us posted. I always learn from this stuff, even if it is to just not do it.
Rod
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
It's not just an issue of doing without an engine overhaul. The purpose is also to continue to have no (measurable/noticeable) oil consumption and put out the factory numbers like 2.2 does.
The first pic of the cam seems to show spalling but you can't feel any irregularity in the cam surface. It's perfectly smooth throughout, at least it feels so to the touch. Tried picking at it with a tooth pick (that's what the marks in oil are) but it's mirror smooth. There's oil film on them (oil rainbow on the follower track) even after sitting for days.
I've only ever used MoS2(molybdenum disulphide), never MoDTC. Whether as a standalone additive to an LM oil without (full synth. 5w40) or mixing that oil with the one LM oil that contains moly (semisynth 10w40).
Also, another thing I liked about LM and that persuaded me to take my business to them is their classification of oil in fully synthetic, synthetic technology, part synthetic, mineral based and special, making clear distinction between their SAE group IV and III products.
About the API and ACEA certifications, you mean they could legally claim API CF, for instance, certification without the product actually having cleared AP institute testing and this would be the case if the starburst symbol is not shown? Like Amsoil claiming to "meet or exceed" API requirements in cases where the respective product has not actually been certified by API?
For example, the following engine oil
http://ww
Synthoil Energy 0w40 is stated to meet API SJ/CF/SH/EC/CF, ACEA A3-98/B3-98, MB 229.1 but:
LIQUI MOLY advise this product for vehicles with the following specifications: BMW Longlife-98 ; Opel GM-LL-B025 ; MB 229.3 ; Porsche ; VW 502.00 / 505.00
They make clear distinction between between approvals/specifications/clearing and their own advisory. Why would they not do so for API and ACEA, were it not the case their products actually are certified by API.
True, there may be the issue of the approval expiry (I know Porsche approval expires) and their not being willing to renew certifications for a product that has already passed the relevant testing and is still being manufactured and sold in the same formulation and quality control. But this would be another thing. I'll check the label tomorrow for the api symbol but I don't remember seeing that on any engine oil I've come across.
Also, I have checked and Liqui Moly products have indeed cleared bmw, porsche, MB and VW certification programs. Obviously, I have not checked all their Porsche, MB, BMW, VW aproved products for such.
I'll try to save up for dyno testing (I also have to change the trailing arm bearings on the rear, the rear tires, the rear brake sabots for the drums, the front pads, the front shocks - they're leaking - and maybe the flanches as well) before and after I use the CeraTEC. They say to use it to use it every 30000 miles with at least 3000 miles until the oil change, so it has time to work in.
Cheers.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
I believe that was caused by a slightly out of balance grinding wheel.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
ADDINOL LUBE OIL GMBH
RAVENSBERGER SCHMIERSTOFFVERTRIEB GMBH
htt
Addinol:
http:
ADDINOL LUBE OIL GMBH began marketing licensed motor oil products on March 14, 2003 under a license issued by the American Petroleum Institute. This License and Agreement will terminate on March 14, 2009 unless extended by mutual agreement.
Ravenol:
http://www.ravenol.de/products?part=294
RAVENSBERGER SCHMIERSTOFFVERTRIEB GMBH began marketing licensed motor oil products on May 1, 2005 under a license issued by the American Petroleum Institute. This License and Agreement will terminate on May 1, 2009 unless extended by mutual agreement.
Maybe one of them sells base stocks to Liqui Moly as well. Or maybe they buy from exxonmobil or whatever. Who knows anything anymore?
Does this mean Liqui Moly chose not to extend their license agreement at some point or that their oils were never licensed at all? I highly doubt that. They may choose to renew API licensing, if/when they launch a new lubricant. It is possible some manufacturer certifications have expired though I've had more luck looking these up.
drwebb, CeraTEC has been certified by TÜV as far as the product claims are concerned. The MoS2 laden semisynthetic is also TüV certified. I know of no PTFE additives being manufactured alongside actual lubricants by a remotely respectable lubricants company. Let alone any certified by a recognized independent attesting body as pertaining to the product claims. MoS2 and BN actually coat sliding surfaces and don't fall out of suspension. They can also withstand higher to much higher temperatures without oxidizing/braking down. I should think the foremost use of these additives is in reducing startup and high temperature & high load wear.
I'm thinking of using a mix of a synthetic 5w40 and semisynthetic 10w40 for a compromise of detergency, TBN, HTHS resistance, friction modifier/antiwear additives, oil flow on startup and viscosity.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
It's your money, waste it as you see fit. You're already doing more damage than good with 20 minute warm-ups.
RE: Boron Nitride engine oil additive
Since the ACEA and manufacturers requirements are also more stringent in some aspects (preventing wear in high revving, small engines that are driven fast)the engine oil quality on average in Europe is better then in the US. The API and ACEA testsequences do have a number of common (engine) tests as both licensing organizations are aware of the cost involved, and specifications are moving closer together. Still there is a lot of difference between driving patterns and engine size though, that call for some dedicated testing.