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Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions
9

Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
My company is considering buying a seat of Solid Edge, and I have a couple of questions:

1. How stable is it (honestly)?  I ask because I just attended an SE seminar where the guy demoing it bombed his laptop 3 times in 60 mins! He said it was a graphics driver issue.  Perhaps.  But if I were demoing software to prospective customers, I would make absolutely sure I was using qualified hardware.  So I suspect a software problem (especially given it's a new release).

2. We have someone new coming on board who has prior experience with *SolidWorks* (not Solid Edge).  How hard would it be for him to make that transition?  I've heard they have similar interfaces, so perhaps not too bad.  His experience is with an older version (he currently uses Inventor, which we're not considering) - so there with will be some transition for him even with SolidWorks.  Just not as much, I expect.

We're also considering SolidWorks, so any feedback on how these two compare would be appreciated also.  We design and build electric motors and actuators at our facility.  So our needs are pretty basic (at least at this point) - part and small assembly models, prints for fabrication, revisions of existing designs to accommodate new applications or customer needs, etc.  I'm sure either package will work.  Ease of use, stability, good support when we need it -those are really the main factors.  We tend to have more work than time so we're looking for a tool that will make us the most productive.

Thanks for any feedback on this.  I appreciate it.  -Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

3
As you are probably aware there is a new version of Solid Edge that departs from the traditional parametric approach of sketches and feature history.
This is available now but has some limitations in functionality, and has been discussed in several threads on this forum. It is referred to as V100 or ST. I understand there are also some stability issues with this version.
The 'traditional' version is still available and is now at V21.
As for stability, I can't comment on the new versions, but I have found V20 to be VERY stable. Any problems are usually caused by graphics card issues, network problems, or hardware not up to the required spec. (Which I think is generally lower for SE than for SW).
My previous contract involved assemblies of up to 30,000 parts and we ran it on 2.4GHz quad-core workstations with 4GB of ram, an gigabit network and with everything stored on a server. Have a look through this forum and the SolidWorks forum for stability issues - you will not find many here.
In comparison with SolidWorks, there is little to chose in functionality.
In my opinion:
SE is stronger and more efficient in assembly modelling (particularly large assemblies).
SolidWorks has better part configuration functions, but they can get very complex if over-used. It probably also has more third-party add-on's.
I found SE drafting to be easier than SW, and you can quite easily do some 2D drawings and sketches without models.
These can be parametric also.
Your new guy will probably want SolidWorks, as I've found that SW users have little time or inclination to use anything else, and will rarely accept that anything else could be as good (check the SW forum !!). If he's any good he will soon adapt, but seriously think about training courses to get the best of whichever system you use.
If you can't do training courses, SE has some good tutorials that will get you going, and it is easy to learn (my son is only 13, he's used it for a couple of years and he can do some pretty complex stuff in it)
SE also has some built-in revision management functionality,
where you can copy, replace and rename files whilst maintaining all the links.
Solid Edge should do everything you need, but so, probably, would SolidWorks.
I've always found SE support to be pretty good, but then it helps if you know who to ask, and depends on whichever VAR you chose.

Hope this helps.
 

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

2

Quote (Beachcomber):

Your new guy will probably want SolidWorks, as I've found that SW users have little time or inclination to use anything else, and will rarely accept that anything else could be as good (check the SW forum !!).

This is so true, each time I get a new colleague to learn SE from a SW background it's always a tedious process not because SW is better but only because the feature don't work in the same manner. So it's tough to get them to know how SE thinks in order to be efficient with it. That's why the training is necessary. Once you know how to do things it's really a powerfull software. I think the same can be said for someone coming from an Inventor background too.

From what I hear and see SE with Synchronous Technology is far appart from SE V20 so I would have a tough time comparing it to any other cad software right now. SEST seem to be a great tool if you have to use a lot of imported geometry.

My 2 cents

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Another thing I forgot is that SE is very good with sheetmetal, for me that's always been the deal maker.

Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
Thanks for the responses.

I realize I wasn't very clear in explaining my second question.  The new guy has actually been using Inventor for the past two years.  He used SolidWorks prior to that (version 2006 I believe).  He specifically said he preferred SolidWorks to Inventor when I asked (thought it was easier).  He's never used Solid Edge, but said he was willing to give it a try.   I was trying to gauge what short of reaction he was likely to have, and whether his prior experiences with SolidWorks and Inventor would be a help or hindrance in learning SE.   Sounds more likely a hindrance, based on the comments.  I wonder if the perception would work the other way (ie would an SE user find SW difficult)?  

I think a longer learning curve (or relearning curve) could be forgiven if the end result was more productive.  I expect that conclusion will depend largely on the specific modeling tasks involved. We'll probably just need to try them both and see.

As for stability, I believe the demo was of the new Synchronous Technology.  Apparently it still needs further shakeout.  I expect the traditional mode (v21) would have behaved, and since that is where we'll probably start, I'm not too concerned.  ST is pretty impressive though, and once matured could be a real productivity boost for the types of work we do.  A definite plus for SE!

Thanks again for the feedback.  Any other comments are welcomed.

Pat  

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

2
The new guy should be able to adapt fairly easily and quickly if he is using only one CAD system daily.

A few years ago I did some work (evenings and weekends from home) for a company which used SE (V16 I think). I found the switch to be very frustrating, but that was probably because I was using SW on a daily basis in my regular job. The main problem was getting used to the different terms and screen layout. I was very lucky in that I had a great mentor working at the other company. SE and SW are pretty well equal in overall capabilities (including sheet metal). Overall their methods of feature creation are different. SE is generally more consistent in its approach to feature creation methods (which can be good or not so good depending on how your mind works) but for the most part, both can be coerced to work like the other.

Anyone who has worked with one system for a number of years will have some trouble adapting to another, no matter which systems are involved. So yes, SE users complain as much abut SW as SW users complain about SE or Inventor or Wildfire or ...

The new ST may or may not be the panacea SE thinks it will be, but that's an argument topic for another thread, and only time will tell. I cut my teeth into the 3D world with Co-Creates Solid Designer, a true and mature history-free program, and while I really liked it, it was not without limitations.

Also, if the new guy used a pre-SW08 version he will be in for some re-training anyway (albeit comparatively short) to get used to the re-vamped interface and shortcuts.

You have already decided to do the absolute best thing you could do ... test the programs yourself. If you have more demos of any software, make sure they don't just do their canned demos. make them work on some of your most awkward parts and assemblies. Make them work for their potential sale. Make them prove beyond doubt that their software will do what you want it to.

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
CorBlimeyLimey -Thanks for your comments.  Sounds like you've had considerable experience with both platforms, which makes them especially valuable.

Your assessment raises an interesting question though.  If SE and SW are truely equivalent in terms of capabilities and ease of use (assuming adequate training), and if they cost about same (which is what I've generally found), then it seems the tie breaker would be all the secondary factors, like third party support, vendor compatibility, availability of training materials, user group support, etc.  By those measures I think it's safe to say SW wins hands down.  So why would anyone buy SE?

I guess I could ask you that, having used both, why did you choose SE over SW, given the other apparent benefits of going with SW?  Was that dictated by your employer?

With ST now part of the package, that could be the answer (which is probably Siemens thought also).  If it proves to be as useful as Siemens is expecting, I'm sure it will be.

Thanks again.

Pat  

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy,
I have to correct your assumption about my SE experience. Although it was fairly intensive during the time I used it, it was actually limited to (I think) V16 and lasted for only a few months.

"By those measures I think it's safe to say SW wins hands down."
You may get some differing opinions on this forum, on that one. lol

"So why would anyone buy SE?"
For existing customers ... loyalty and legacy data. Over the years, SW and SE have been leapfrogging each other in terms of capability. The "tie breaker" items you mention weren't always there, and some will argue they are not there now.
For new customers ... word of mouth recommendations from trusted friends or associated companies (existing customers). I would rather take the word of a friend or associate over any CAD salesman. wink

"why did you choose SE over SW"
I actually use SW and do so because I joined a company which already used SW. Previous company used Solid Designer.

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
CorBlimeyLimey wrote:  "I actually use SW and do so because I joined a company which already used SW. Previous company used Solid Designer."

Sorry, my mistake.  I obviously assumed you were an SE user.

I guess I should have qualified my question somewhat.  Why would a new user, or someone without any prior affiliation to either SW over SE, choose SE over SW, given the considerations I mentioned above?  I think that's a fair question.

If you're already using an existing product, then there's certainly a lot of incentive to continue with it, and for the reasons you pointed out.  It's also a good reason for not being too quick to jump into something.

Also, the big assumption I'm making with the question I posed is that SE and SW are actually equivalent, which is not really true.  They may have equivalent features and capabilities, but it sounds like the interfaces and modeling approaches are different. Given that, one may just feel more natural to use then the other, depending on personal preferences.  That would be a good reason for choosing it, in my opinion.

Thanks again for the feedback.  -Pat   

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Pat
Both packages will work for what you are doing.  SW is easier to use - the SE work flow can be a little clunky at times and this can really frustrate someone used to SW. On the other hand, an experienced SE user usually finds SW a bit "clicky".

"So why would anyone buy SE?"

If you look at the profile of SE customers it is heavily weighted to companies who do a lot of sheet metal and large assemblies (neither seem to apply to you).  
Sorry CBL, SW and SE are definitely NOT equal in sheetmetal capability. SW is short on proper tools, instead relying on features pulled from the feature library - definitly not as robust.

SW has many more plug-ins is more likely to be integrated into support products.  The online community is also much bigger.

As for stability, V20 was rock solid.  The traditional environment in SE w ST seems fine also.  The new ST env. definitely has issues and I would be skeptical of the graphics card excuse used by the demo guy.

As you have a SW user, it would seem that SW is the obvious choice.

There is one other consideration however and that is ST.  While very useable at the moment, you should think of it as an emerging technology as opposed to a fully featured package.  The expectation is that both features and stability will improve in time.  
Also bear in mind that ST is very different to trad. SE and SW and you will need to budget for additional training if you are to exploit its capabilities.

Tony

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

"SW is easier to use - the SE work flow can be a little clunky at times"

Not to me it isn't - I found exactly the opposite.

"If you look at the profile of SE customers it is heavily weighted to companies who do a lot of sheet metal and large assemblies"

Again I dont think this is necessarily true, but perhaps this type of user need something better at the job than SolidWorks.

SW does probably have more users - but AutoCad 2D has even more, so on that basis that's what you should use.

Maybe you can see now what I mean about SW users !  

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

beachcomber,

"Maybe you can see now what I mean about SW users !"
... but teebar is a SE user.

I would have to agree with you on SE workflow. I found it to be more consistent (than SW) in its method of feature creation.

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
teebar, - yes, you're right.  Very little of our work involves sheet metal or large assemblies.  So from that standpoint, SW would work fine.

But as I mentioned above, we're planning to try both.  So we'll see for ourselves (and for the types of parts we model) which is actually easier.  I expect though there will be cases where each shine. I've decided to start to with SE in our trial.  That should actual favor it in this comparison, but if SW is truly easier to use overall, than that should come out regardless.

The other thing we're really looking for, and this gets back to my first question, is stability.  That is very important.  We're actually coming from another CAD package - Cobalt (from Ashlar-Vellum) - which suffers in this regard.  Cobalt is very easy to use, which is why we originally went with it.  BUT, development on it has really lagged over the past few years, and there are a number long standing issues that really plague it.  One painful lesson we've learned with it is that any productivity gains that come from having a nice, intuitive user interface or work flow (which it does) can quickly be wiped out by annoying bugs, unexpected crashes, and clunky work-arounds needed to produce usable drawings and export files.  Now that business is growing, these issues have really become intolerable, and it's why we're looking for a better alternative.  Hearing that SE traditional is "very stable" is a big, big plus for it, in my opinion.  SW I'm less sure about.  I've heard SW08 had some problems (enough that apparently a lot users decided to skip this release).  Hopefully SW09 is better, but if not, that would be a concern.  

ST is another plus favoring SE. I've been very impressed by the demos I've seen (crashes notwithstanding) and I think it could be a big help in some of the work we do (R&D stuff especially).  Stability appears to be an issue, however.  But unlike Ashlar, I expect Siemens will get this sorted out.

Anyway, thanks again for all the feedback. It's been very helpful.  If nothing else, its confirmed that both SE and SW deserve our full consideration.  

Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

"I've heard SW08 had some problems (enough that apparently a lot users decided to skip this release)"

It wasn't so much 'problems' as the substantial interface change. Much of it just change for the sake of change. It caused a knee-jerk reaction from the more vocal user base which in turn scared-off many users from upgrading.
Those users who actually adopted the changes have found themselves to be more productive.

Only the in-depth testing you plan on doing will determine which system is better for your products and users.

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

I've been an SE user since V16 and like it.  I also love the addition of ST and can't wait to see what sheet metal ST is like, coming in the next release.

I am just giving my honest opinion to Pat's situation.  CAD users like what they are used to and unless there is a strong case for changing, it often is not worth the continual "In my last software I was able to........"

The big thing I would be considering if I was Pat would be the ability to use my existing models.  Both SW and SE trad. have direct edit tools, but ST has the potential to model dumb geometry as if it were created nativly.  This could be a big deal.

I agree whole heartedly with CBL that canned demos are a waste of time.  The only way to compare software is to send parts or drawings to the VARs and get then to demo the generation of the part AND assembly.  
Then ask for a specific set of modifications to be done on one of your existing models.

I have done this in the past and the results can be quite surprising.

At the recent SW World they openly admitted that a focus of 2009 was to improve stability.  Instability issues are have been broadly discussed amoungst bloggers.  That said, they seemed to have responed and 2009 is generally accepted as a good release. So I wouldn't see it as cause for concern.

Pat, let us all know how the demos go!

Tony  

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
Thanks again for all the feedback and will keep you posted as to how it goes.  In fact, I expect I'll be back fairly often once the trial starts, which I'm looking forward to.

Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy,

I haven't worked SW but from what I've seen, read, heard etc. I believe they are broadly comparable in performance/value etc.

Others have highlighted specific areas where they believe one is better/worse than the other.

I'd say the biggest decider would probably be the 'secondary' issues.  Fundamentally SW has a larger user base in most geographic locations than SE, although it varies some.  This has advantages and disadvantages, for instance while easier to find employees familiar with SW, it's easier for them to find a job elsewhere using it.  There are more 3rd party apps etc for SW, but will you need them?

I've got to say that since coming to the US I've found the Solid Edge 'GTAC' customer support pretty darn good.  I can't remember if in other parts of the world you have to contact your VAR though.

As to stability, it's never been too much of an issue.  Dont' get me wrong, occasionally SE has been crash happy but this is usually due to what we're trying to do with it or how it's configured etc. not fundamentally the Software.  V19 has been pretty stable for us I think.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

I am using SE since last 1.5 years, shifted from SW. I had used SW for 5 years including Sheetmetal. My Honest Opinion would be with SW. SE is no way near SW as far as Part modeling Assembly & draft is concern.

I haven't used Sheetmetal in SE, so I am not in position to comment about it.

SW is far more flexible & robust.

I have many pending issues with SE which might easily do in SW. Some of them are listed below....

1.    Full round blend is not possible
2.    View reorientation in draft is not possible
3.    Part/body mirror, scale in part environment is not possible
4.    Ref-axis can't used as ref. for other feature
5.    "Detail envelope" line properties change is not possible
6.    Image retrieval in draft from part modeler is not possible
7.    Limited assembly mate options such as Symmetric etc. I could not put a edge on face.
8.    No helical curve feature (can be derived from solid)
9.    Dim. Can't moved between views
10.    Linear dimension line can not be jogged
11.    Rounding off dim. With user defined least-count is not possible
12.    Intersection point with annotation line can not be used as dim. Origin
13.    Construction solid in part model is not possible & imported part is difficult to locate with reference to home part (too little control)


This list keeps on adding without satisfactory answers in this forum.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

I have used both SW and SE. Personally, I have found that Solid Edge is much more user friendly. And its capabilites with sheetmetal make it my choice.
If your keen to train your company in Solid Edge you should check out http://www.soliddgetutorials.com/buy they offer a range of Solidedge Video Tutorials with a full site licence and are developing Solid Edge with ST Video Tutorials.

 

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
Bhaveshn,

Thanks for your feedback.  Not being familiar with either SE or SW. many of the items on your list I can't really appreciate.  But it's certainly clear SE still has room for improvement. ;^)

A couple of the items you listed did surprise me though.

For example, number 8 - no helical curve.  So you're saying SE doesn't have any tool that can do that?  I'm very surprised, because even Cobalt (what I'm currently using) can do that.  It's very useful too (if not indispensable) for creating screw or bolt threads.  I actually needed to do that in a recent project.

Some of the others, like (1) and (11), also seem like they should be part of a CAD package at this level.

Since you have used both SE and SW quite a bit, you're also in a good position to answer the converse.  Have you come across any useful features or capabilities in SE that SW doesn't have? If so, I would be very interested in hearing those as well.  It would be good to know what I might miss by going SW instead of SE.

Thanks again for your comments.  They were helpful.  -Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Bhaveshn,

1) If I interpret your definition of a full round, then yes it is possible in SE to do.  I would need to see an example in order to compare directly, though.

2) This one is very specific and hard to comment on without knowledge of both packages.  You are correct that you can't go into a drawing view and spin it around like a 3D window.  That's because SE does not throw a viewport to the model in draft.  SE actually projects the model onto the drawing view and creates lines/arcs/etc.  This is a very powerful feature in SE because it allows for the draft file to be independent of the model so when I send a draft file to a customer or vendor, I don't need to send the model file along with it.  The draft file will remain intact.

3) I can scale and mirror a part in SE.  Not quite sure exactly what you're trying to do.

4) SE doesn't create reference axis like SW does every time I create a cylindrical object.  That's very nice for clarity of the model.  If you need the axis, just pick the cylindrical surface and the axis should be implied.

5) Because of the way models are projected onto the drawing per number 2 above, I can modify any linetype of any edge on the drawing however I want.  I don't quite understand what you see as a limitation.

6) I don't know what you mean by image retrieval.  Can you elaborate?  Because in SE I can bring in shaded views, I can bring in image files, and I can bring in renderings.  

7) SE has all the same assembly relationships as SW.  I've connected edges to faces without issue.  Do you have an example?

8) I still don't understand why SE does not have a helical curve feature.  They have helical surfaces, and helical solids, but not a helical curve.  Plenty of work-arounds to get the result I need, but a helical curve feature certainly would be nice.

9) Because SW displays a viewport into the model through the paper (like ACAD paperspace viewports), the dimensions are actually "linked" to the model.  Thus, you can click on a dimension and drag it to a new viewport and the dimension will reattach if those edges are visible in the new viewport.  Because of item 2 above, that "linking" to the model file does not exist in SE and therefore you can not just drag a dimension from one view to another and have it reattach.  Personally, even with SW, I have always found it easier to delete the old and create the new.

10) Nope.  Just ordinate dimensions and radial dimensions can be jogged.  Thankfully, it is rare that I ever come across a design that requires me to jog a linear dimension.  If I do, then most likely my drawing isn't going to be clear anyway so I find a better way to dimension the drawing.

11) SE rounds to the significant figures defined in your dimension style.  You have the option of rounding up or down when a "5" is the last sig-fig.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like SW gives you the option to fake your dimensions by utilizing a rounding trick.  Why would you want inaccurate dimensions?

12) When would you ever dimension to a dimension line?  Shouldn't dimensions be placed to object lines?  Personally, I have never in my entire career come across a situation where I had to dimension the location of a dimension.  Perhaps an example is necessary because I don't see the reason behind such a feature.

13) I use construction geometry (solids and surfaces) in my parts all the time and have no trouble locating construction geometry relative to my design body.  Give an example and we can step you through the process.

--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Scott,

Thanks for replying in detail. All 13 points are extracted from my previous threads for which I couldn't get solution. It would be better if we discuss this in same threads. Below is the thread reference numbers.


1.   thread562-188496: Full round blend
2.   thread562-187770: Reorienting View
3.   thread562-190577: Part/ Body mirror & 189097
4.   thread562-194819: RefAxis
5.   thread562-204846: Detail Envelope Properties
6.   thread562-207060: Sketch display in drawing view
7.   thread562-220500: Assembly Mate
8.   thread562-188017: Helical Curve
9.   thread562-187905: Move dimension to another view
10.  thread562-189462: Jog dimension line
11.  thread562-190938: Round-off dimension values
12.  thread562-187765: Picking dimension origin
13.  thread562-188021: Construction Solid

thanks again.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

I will back up what others say.  Many of us 'fall in love' with our first CAD system, and compare any new system to it.

As such I'm not convinced that someone who's spent a lot of time on SW and then spends some time on SE will actually give an unbiased answer.

I've had users of other CAD systems transitioning to SE come up with all kinds of things it 'can't do' usually I can find a solution or different approach.

The important thing is to focus on the required end result and how to get there, not try to replicate the process of other CAD systems.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Bh, give me some time and I'll get to as many of those as I can within their respective threads.

--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

swertel,

Most of those threads have been inactive for over 6 months and consequently have been closed.

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Hi Kenat,

Above stated threads are not based on any software, but I came across it when trying to achieve end result.

We should take one thread as an example instead of beating around bush.

thread562-188496: Full round blend
Full round blend

Try to achieve attached in any SE V20 or older.
Any method can be valid unless you have to write macro or use of third party add-in.

Thanks

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Hi Swertel,

You can always continue on closed thread by adding reference to closed thread number.

Thanks

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Bhaveshn, without having the part to work with I can't necessarily answer the question.

One way I've got around similar problems is not to use a rad, but instead to create the protrusion (or swept/lofted protrusion) with the radius.

This may well be a case where SW has an advantage over SE, I don't have a problem contemplating that there may be things other packages do better.

Did you contact GTAC?

Anyway, this is off topic from the OP.  Most of those threads are old an closed.  If you are relying on this forum as your primary (only?) source of help that may be part of the problem - there are some very experienced users here but they may not have all the answers or have time to explain them to you.  Have you contacted SE direct where applicable?

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Maybe I am missing something but I don't seem to have a problem reproducing the PDF model and driving the rad by x width. SE w ST - trad.
Tony

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

OK, I get it now.  No, there is no option for variable radius in SE trad.  Interestingly, the function has been added to the ST environment (along with blended fillets and blended surfaces).  However, once applied, I can find no way to update it parametrically. eg if the wall width changes.  Maybe someone knows better.

So I would say it is there but limited in functionality.
Tony

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

In addition to Swertel's reply -

1. The full round as described is a fillet tangential to 3 faces. The example I gave was a triangular rib on a casting. If the sides have a draft angle then the top face of the rib will taper in width. Thus the full rad fillet has to vary along the edges of the face, and the flat top face will be completely removed. This is not directly possible in SE, although it can be approximated by 2 varying rad fillets.

5. Edit the dimension style, or create a new dimension style called "Detail View", set the properties as described in the thread and use dimension style mapping. The idea of having dimension styles is to ensure consistent drafting standards. If your standard requires something different you can change it.

6. Sketches are displayable in drawing views, as are construction elements, co-ordinate systems, ref planes & centre lines. However, an image (bmp,jpg) pasted onto a sketch in a part will not display in a draft. The image can be pasted directly into draft.

7. Assembly 'Mates' may differ a bit in SE but I can't recall not being able to position anything. Using the term 'Mates' for all constraints is a SW thing. A MATE in SE is a face-to-face planar constraint.
One thing SW doesn't have is the ability to lock a cylindrical relationship. Another constraint has to be applied.
There may also be a performance issue in SW where it begins to slow down when there are about 300 constraints in an assembly.

11. Being able to round-off dimensions to the nearest 0.5 would be nice, but if you show a dim to 1dp then it should show the correctly rounded value.

12. Always dimension to model elements, not centre lines etc.
Sometimes this isn't possible so I create points etc in the view that are then constrained to the draft elements.

and......

14. REVISION MANAGER - As far as I know, SW has nothing out of the box to compare with it's power for copying, renaming and replacing files. You would probably need PDMWorks. Make sure you try Rev manager and understand it. get a good demo of it.

15. In SE, open drawings with drawing views 'inactive'. This method stops SE from checking back to the model when opening the drawing, thus draft file opening times are drastically reduced for complex assemblies. You can then add dims, notes, print etc.

16. 'Cosmetic threads' - I never did understand this term because SE just creates a threaded hole or you tell it a cylinder has a thread on it , but I always found SW gave problems depicting threads on drawings - sometimes they worked, sometimes not. I've had instances where some holes in a pattern showed the thread but others didn't. It took several attempts and feature re-creations to correct it.
SE just shows them - always.

17. In SE hiding a part in an assembly model, then saving the model, will not hide it in the drawing - that really bugged me when I used SW.

18. SE Capture Fit - save the constraints required to position a part permanently to the part file OR just for the current work session.

19. Transfer or Disperse parts - discrete commands so no danger of dragging and dropping one part into another assembly in the assembly tree.

20. In assembly, select some parts and "Show Only" - this was not available in SW when I used it.

I'm sure we could all go on comparing, but the fact is they are essentially the same, but differ in detail.
A few things you can do in one, but not in the other.

 

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

That question gets asked every year. There's just no pleasing some people.

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
Interesting responses to Bhaveshn's list.

swertel -I especially appreciate your point-by-point response, and beachcomber -your list of SE only features.  Just shows they have different ways of doing things, and unique capabilities to support that.

I have no doubt SE (or SW) will work fine for our needs, despite any feature differences.  I expect it will mainly come down to which seems easier to use when modeling *our* parts and assemblies (not the demos).  ST may be the tie breaker if everything else is comparable.

I expect any stability differences will also come out.  At least that's been my experience, as new users have this habit of clicking the wrong buttons and using the software in ways not intended.  Some of these applications are amazingly easy to crash in the wrong hands. ;^)

 

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

beachcomber,

I'm honestly not trying to start a "mine's better than yours" war. No-one wins those. I agree 100% with your "they are essentially the same, but differ in detail" statement. So just an FYI for your additional points.

14) "SolidWorks Explorer" has been doing this for several versions.

15) SW drawings can be opened in "Lightweight" (only basic solid info loaded for performance boost, but edits affect the model) or "Detached" (big performance boost, edits are applied only when re-attached).

16) Agreed it's flakey visually, but usually comes down to user settings. Too many options affect it. The hole callout data is always(?) correct though.

17) Haven't experienced that.

18) Not sure, but the "Use for positioning only" option sounds about right. The mate is used to position the part but is not permanently applied.

19) SE method sounds better. SW uses visual move/copy/insert indicators controlled by key combination selection.

20) An "Isolate" function has been added to do that.

peace

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Thanks CBL, the version I used was 2006 so I expected these points may have been addressed.
Just shows that each is playing catch-up with the other - if only we could combine the two......

pkelecy..
"Some of these applications are amazingly easy to crash in the wrong hands" -------- how true.
One tip here though, there are things that require a double-click in SW but only a single click in SE (editing a dim in sketch springs to mind) - that does tend to drive you nuts if you change from one to the other.
By the way, any reason for not trying Inventor, or have I missed that somewhere?
 

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

"- if only we could combine the two......"

... but then we'd have nothing to argue about discuss.

Oh right, Inventor. lol

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

I think this has been a really interesting thread.
It's certainly made me wrack my brains thinking of how things work in SE and trying to jog the memory back a couple of years to SW (not an easy task these days).
Let's hope it's also been useful to pkelecy, and given him some hints on what to look for.

I once took part in an evaluation exercise for a new CAD system for a very large, mulit-national company. Part way through we were told by the 'higher decision makers' that we could evaluate any system we liked, but that it was going to be Catia (V4) !! curse

And they still carried on with the evaluation. rofl
........ but only evaluated Catia.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy

You seem to handle your search pretty well so far... In giving each software his own evaluation you will give yourself as much information as possible to take a good decision.

I don't know if you got demos from your VAR for each software, but it would be a good opportunity to test your VAR as well. Even with two comparable products you could be amazed how big a difference the user behind the keyboard can make, so send example of what kind of parts (Products) you are doing and ask each VAR to come back two or three days after that to show you how to model them. Not only will you see how well the software can work for you but you will also see which VAR will be able to help you the best in being as productive as possible. You can see that as an interview of your VAR because in the long term you may well need him and it's usefull to have a great service when you need to get the job done.

My 2 cents.

Patrick

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
PatCouture - Thanks for the advice.  I do have a rather wicked modeling problem that would be a good test (imagine a long ribbon that is wound in a helix, so it's 3D, but rather than following a circular path its actually follows  something that looks more like "cloverleaf" as you look at it along its axis).  BTW, this represents an actually part of ours. It's a form it takes during an intermediate fabrication step.  I need to design a fixture to support it while in that shape, so having such a model would be very useful.  I may just have them try that!

KENAT - I'm located in southern Indiana (near Lousiville, KY). I wasn't aware you could work directly Siemens.  I thought you had to go through a local var.  The one I'm working with is located in Indianapolis (associated with Appropriate Technology).  I have to say though I really like him.  He's actually an ME that does mechanical design work as his main business.  So supporting SE is really more of a sideline.  But he's been great to work with so far, and to be honest I find myself strongly leaning toward SE just because of him.

Anyway, thanks for the CAD selection link.  Looks like some good info!  

Pat

 

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

The one main benefit of SE is that you work directly with Siemen's for technical support or the VAR if you wish, as long as you're in the US.  I have to say, the people at GTAC (Siemen's tech support) are fabulous and I don't ever call my VAR unless I need to buy another license.

Once you buy SE, you will be able to sign up for a webkey which grants you access to the "members only" portion of Siemen's, including their private community newsgroup.  I know other packages also require you to be on active maintenance in order to have access to the exclusive perks.  I just bring this up because the private newsgroup is where the real support is at.  Eng-tips comes in 2nd and is used mainly by those without a webkey, but the real power-users are in the newsgroup.  You also get responses directly from the Director of SE Development.

--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
Scott, - Thanks for the info.  It made me realize I probably misunderstood KENAT's comment on working directly with Siemens.  I believe he meant for *support*.  Yes, I knew that, and I've heard GTAC is pretty good.  I hope they let me try it out during my trial.  Purchasing is through a var only I believe (which was my confusion).

I see from your website you use Alibre also.  That's an option that was also suggested, given our small size and basic needs.  The price is certainly right!  How do you like it compared to SE?  Just curious.

-Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

We don't use a VAR, we work directly with Siemans.  The Siemans sales person visits every now and then, they come and do demos, lunch & learns etc.  We place orders directly with them.

Back in the UK we had it through a VAR, and we didn't have any real support but I'm not sure if that's just cause IT didn't give us the information or what.

I don't know how they decide who/where has to go through a VAR and who deals direct with Siemans. Once you get into negotiations with a VAR though you may be commited to them.  

We were looking at a PLM install and invited in various vendors in as well as Siemans themselves as we were interested not just in getting software but having the supplier help with the implementaion.  So we got presentations on Teamcenter from both Siemans direct and a VAR.  Siemans put together a better package so we went with them for more detailed project definition etc.  The VAR kicked up a stink saying we'd commited to them etc, which wasn't the case, but it got ugly for a little while.

Anyway that's a side track, if you local VAR seems really good that's a definite plus then for SE.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

I don't want to take this too far off topic, but more info about the SE Var vs. Siemens discussions.

Siemens is currently redefining the Value in their Value Added Reseller program.  Resellers are the local focus, local training, local seminars, etc.  But, Siemens has also started to implement regional offices that better oversee their VARs and provide regional focus, regional training, and regional seminars.  Well, when you happen to live in the same metropolis as Siemens and a VAR like I do, then there is a bit of conflict, but otherwise it seems to be much better and works well synergistically.  Basically, the regional Siemens rep provides logistics and support for the local reseller and puts on larger events that a local independent may not be able to afford.

pkelecy, the discussion of Alibre compared to SE is best suited for either another thread or a private discussion.  Since those topics tend to spark flame wars, I'm going to recommend you email directly and I can answer specific questions or point-by-point comparisons.  Link my signature, find me email address - I make it all too easy.  I typically don't like to pull potentially helpful info away from eng-tips, but this is one of those exceptions.

--Scott
http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy

You can not do to through of an evaluation. Last place I worked got tired of evaluating software and just bought one based on the demo. It turns out that they could not make their most important part which was 50% of their buisness! They never even got the software deployed :(

Do every step you think you might do such as assembly configurations, drawings, import & export. Test compatibility with your downstream software like CAM packages.

I have found issues with both SE and SW that made some jobs imposable but most of them were complicated and challenged high end packages.

During the eval test out the support at GTAC.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy -
how are you getting on? - we haven't heard from you for a while.
While you are evaluating, I would suggest reading this forum (which I suspect you are anyway) and the forums for any other package you are going to evaluate, to see what problems people are having, and what solutions are offered.
Then test out the 'problems' in the other packages.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
Hi bc,

Well, I've completed my trial of SE.  A month really wasn't enough time to try out everything I would have liked (I never got to sheet metal or FEA, and just a little drafting).  But overall I feel I got a pretty good taste of what SE is like.  My impressions so far are a little mixed, to be honest.  SE is no doubt a very powerful application (definitely more capable than Cobalt, what I currently use).  That has both its good and bad aspects.  The good side is that it can do a lot, and I was very impressed with it capabilities, particularly with regard to constraint handling, parametrics (the use of variables, part families, etc) and assemblies.  The bad side though is that all that capability introduces a lot of complexity (at least in comparison to what I'm use to) and a steeper learning curve.  The number of options available when using some of  the tools was a bit over whelming at times,  and  some things that seemed like they should have been simple (ie patterning) weren't always in order to accommodate the variety of special cases a user might have.  All that complexity made it seem unintuitive at times, and by that I mean I wasn't always able to figure out how use a tool or perform a certain operation by just playing with it.  It often took careful study of the documentation to figure things out, and sometimes even that wasn't enough (hence all my questions here in this forum).  But looking back on it, I think once one was over the learning curve and comfortable using it, SE would be a pretty efficient application to work in.  My worry though is that my CAD usage is somewhat sporadic, and without the constant exposure to it I might never get to that comfort level that makes an application efficient (and enjoyable) to use.  That tends to be problem in particular with complex applications.

I now getting ready to start trial of SolidWorks (hope to start it this week, in fact) and will be interested in seeing how it compares.  I expect though that since it's comparable in features and capabilities, it will also be comparable in complexity and learning curve.  If so, I'm not sure which way I'll go.

Thanks again for all the help while doing this.  It definitely made things go more smoothly.

Pat
 

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy, if you use sheet metal much then it's a shame you didn't get to play with in in SE, it's generally regarded as one of its strong points.

As to what you say about effectively being a 'part time' user, I have that problem these days.  The last 18 months or so I haven't spent as much time doing CAD and certainly haven't got my head around some of the changes in the last couple of releases.  The only thing I have going for me is I've used SE enough to kind of understand 'how it thinks' so can learn new stuff fairly quick.  I also long ago learnt how to use the help in SE, I find it one of the best I've used, better than any MS office help, but that may just be 'cause I've used it a lot.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Hi pkelecy,

The mixed response you are encountering is normal. SE like others has it idiosyncrasies
The best advice I can give is to learn what you need at that given time. In the early days I used to have workflow sheets that were a hybrid of the printed help and my own notes. These helped immensely when, like yourself I would come up against a problem or a particular situation every couple of months

I have been successfully using SE since V7 and today like in the real world I will find a new and interesting aspect to SE and say "%^$&" I didn't know I could do that and all this time I was doing that way. We never stop learning and this is one of the most enjoyable aspects of working with the likes of SE

This is by far the most informative forum; some of the regular posters have vast knowledge, unlike other forums for SW etc, where you have to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat.

I often wondered why SE was not supported as much as others on the web with tutorials and workarounds and used to put this down to sales and usage, but I'm inclined to think that it also due to its logical workflow and the users, who have brought a tool particular to their needs and not purchased SW or ProE due to hype or peer pressure.

Sheetmetal is my business and SE by far out scores every other 3D parametric software on the market.
 

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

Been using it since version 3 - and still learning !!!

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

"This is by far the most informative forum; some of the regular posters have vast knowledge, unlike other forums for SW etc, where you have to wade through the chaff to get to the wheat."

Cough, splutter, groan, harumph ... and other sounds of overacted indignation! Where's my defibrillator?

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

CBL -
Having seen your postings on the 'other' forum, I can definitely say you come into the category of wheat (first class grade), and I'm sure pkelecy will be making use of your vast knowledge in the near future.
idea

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

blush   Awww shucks  blush

cheers

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
"...and I'm sure pkelecy will be making use of your vast knowledge in the near future"

Well, I hope to, but I'm still trying the separate the "wheat from the chaff" among the SW VARs!

I've talked to two and haven't cared for either.  So now I'm looking for a third.  SE may get my business my default!

Pat

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

pkelecy,

Five years ago at a different company I had the task of evaluating what software we would move to from ACad. We went with SE because of the fact the SW VAR was really pushing us to make a decision one day after he gave the demo. We went with SE. I have never really used SW so I have no real opinion on it. When I came to my current job they had just gotten SE but had been using SW. All I would hear is we were able to do this or that is SW how come we can't do it in SE. In just about every case I was able to show them how to do it in SE they just did not like that they could not do it like they did it in SW. I am 100% happy with SE and also do find that GTAC is really helpful with anything I have thrown their way.

JK

RE: Considering buying Solid Edge - some questions

(OP)
JK,

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

I can also relate to it somewhat.  I'm currently doing a trial of SW (just started it a week ago) but find myself leaning towards SE, mainly because of some negative opinions I've developed of the SW vars.  I've worked with two (the first I dropped because he wouldn't give me a trial unless I sat though a demo), but even the second has not been that accommodating.  I had to argue for a 30, rather than 15 day trial.  I was about to look for a third var when reason finally set in.  I could go on, but I don't want this to turn into a rant.  In fairness, the vars themselves were pretty nice guys.  I think they were mainly following the prescribed corporate marketing strategy (which stinks, imo).  I definitely prefer Siemens to Dassault.

You indicated your current employer switched from SW to SE?  That's interesting.  What prompted that move (if you don't mind me asking)?

Pat



 

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