Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
(OP)
Hi all, I'm looking for some help on a topic where nobody seems able to be able to help me so far!
I am looking to apply ultrasonic cleaning in a big tank of hot acid about 15 feet by 6 feet by 6 feet deep with a liquid depth of around 4 1/2 feet.
I am being told by suppliers that I must hang the ultrasonic transducers into the liquid over the side of the tank or place them in the bottom of the tank.
I actually want to bond them to the outside of the tank bottom so that they (and the cables!) are out of harms way of the hot acid and in effect, the tank bottom becomes the ultrasound transducer and to my mind will give a good spread of ultrasound over the entire length/width of the tank into the acid.
Suppliers tell me that external mounting will not work but are unable to tell me why. I am told I need about 70kw of installed ultrasound transducers in the tank. This means about 35 x 2kw transducers hanging over the side of or lying on the bottom of the tank! I really want the transducers externally on the bottom of the tank! Anyone able to help here please? Thanks!!!
I am looking to apply ultrasonic cleaning in a big tank of hot acid about 15 feet by 6 feet by 6 feet deep with a liquid depth of around 4 1/2 feet.
I am being told by suppliers that I must hang the ultrasonic transducers into the liquid over the side of the tank or place them in the bottom of the tank.
I actually want to bond them to the outside of the tank bottom so that they (and the cables!) are out of harms way of the hot acid and in effect, the tank bottom becomes the ultrasound transducer and to my mind will give a good spread of ultrasound over the entire length/width of the tank into the acid.
Suppliers tell me that external mounting will not work but are unable to tell me why. I am told I need about 70kw of installed ultrasound transducers in the tank. This means about 35 x 2kw transducers hanging over the side of or lying on the bottom of the tank! I really want the transducers externally on the bottom of the tank! Anyone able to help here please? Thanks!!!





RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
As for the power, that's consistent with typical equipment, 2kW/90gal. Your tank, as described, holds 3000 gal, so about 67 kW. http://
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RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
As for the walls, I think they're overly constrained. It's not enough to just make the frequency, but also the waveshape. A large, nearly flat, transducer is not going to produce enough in the way of cavitation points to do a good job of scrubbing.
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RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
Howabout some sort of waveguide and a porthole in the side of the tank?
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
That tank uses 4 transducers per wall, total of 8. Since each transducer puts out, presumably, a somewhat spherical wavefront, there is lots of interference, hence lots of cavitation bubbles.
One could possibly imagine having 8 cutouts, flush with the original walls, leaving only one side exposed, but the sealing will be critical, and prone to failure. Moreover, the outboard side still needs to be rigidly constrained, so that the energy is all directed inward. Ultimately, such a configuration is not much better than having the transducers mounted inside the tank, and is much more complicated.
These puppies are non-trivial in size, so it's not like some itty-bitty thing dangling in the solution. The tank in the picture is about 1/4 the size of the OP's, so roughly 18 kW over 8 transducers, about 2.25 kW each.
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RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
My logic is this- See those rectangular transducers in the link to Ransohoff? Well, inside those stainless steel boxes there are a bunch of individual transducers bonded to a (1/8" thick?) stainless steel plate then the assembly is welded up into a box.
Now then, if I made my tank wall 1/8" thick and bonded the transducers directly to the outside of the tank (just like the ones inside the Ransohoff box) why wouldn't it be just as effective?
One potential supplier (Blacksone Ney) has suggested a power input of 20kw with a variable frequency generator pack which seems a lot lower than the rule of thumb used by most suppliers above indicates. It is extremely difficult to validate any of this stuff, it seems a bit like black magic!
All thoughts appreciated! Thank you.
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
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RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
Who in the industry have you been in contact with? I know for a fact that you can bond transducers to the bottom of the tank. If you could, please provide me your email and I will help you out. I am an expert in the field of ultrasonics. I no longer work in the industry but I still do some consulting. I can put you in touch with the right people.
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
I am on the verge of abandoning this idea and fitting the tanks with air sparge pipes instead as a compromise solution. BU's budget cost to fit out the tanks is ~$320,000 per tank. I'm wanting to build 10 to 12 of these, and that's a lot of money for black magic!
RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?
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RE: Ultrasonic cleanig technology help?