Work by others, non-engineers
Work by others, non-engineers
(OP)
I have seen the post up a number of times, but usually in an instance where another engineer is involved.
My question:
Is it acceptable to seal and sign the work of non-engineers?
To clarify my position, we are typically asked to review drawings, at a residential level, where the drawings were prepared by another. These drawings will include all of the architectural plans, the structural plans, and relevant details. Calculations are made to review the sizes and details reviewed for their content and design. All comments are returned in which the remarks are addressed and then once again returned to us for a final signature. The final product is reviewed against the original remarks and sealed if satisfactory.
In other cases, we get "walk-ins" in which an individual will bring us an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet(s), lets say a storage shed in their backyard, that needs a stamp. Same thing here where we will run the necessary calculations and provide necessary details. Any comments made sometimes are made on the drawing, initialed by the engineer, then sealing the document.
My question:
Is it acceptable to seal and sign the work of non-engineers?
To clarify my position, we are typically asked to review drawings, at a residential level, where the drawings were prepared by another. These drawings will include all of the architectural plans, the structural plans, and relevant details. Calculations are made to review the sizes and details reviewed for their content and design. All comments are returned in which the remarks are addressed and then once again returned to us for a final signature. The final product is reviewed against the original remarks and sealed if satisfactory.
In other cases, we get "walk-ins" in which an individual will bring us an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet(s), lets say a storage shed in their backyard, that needs a stamp. Same thing here where we will run the necessary calculations and provide necessary details. Any comments made sometimes are made on the drawing, initialed by the engineer, then sealing the document.





RE: Work by others, non-engineers
Second scenario is almost diminimous. Fifteen minutes on a storage shed that is 12' x 12' should not maximize your engineering talents. And that can be reasonably done in a few monents. But again - I would suggest you have an established relationship.
HOWEVER and there is always a HOWEVER - check with your
local state board to see what they think.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
Nothing wrong with engaging a qualified PE to review plans, make supplemental calculations, and stamp the package.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
Since you are signing as EOR, you are vouching for all the design details, all else matters naught. If you had a trained monkey that could do the job, that shouldn't be an issue.
This is also not that different than the liability you incur when you use design software. By using software like Autocad or Mathcad, and signing the design drawings, you are certifying the results of the software, and essentially alleviated them of the liability. As the PE, any errors in the software are your errors.
TTFN
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RE: Work by others, non-engineers
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
Seems like I've read in at least one state that it spefically allows for an instate engineer to review and seal the work done by an out of state engineer, and that provision wouldn't necessarily extend to non-engineers.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
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Syl.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
Depends on the state, but most states require that the engineering work be done under the direct supervision of the PE. Simply validating and verifying the calc doesn't pass muster in a number of states.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
meaning what, exactly? If you're not supposed to be sitting there, looking over the shoulder of the guy you're supervising, then all you could have done is to delegate the work and verify/review upon completion.
TTFN
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RE: Work by others, non-engineers
I'd say either-or in both cases. What we need to consider, in my opinion, is the intent of the law from that aspect. I think the idea behind it is to prevent "rubber stamping" of a set of drawings. An engineer needs to "physically" (for lack of a better word) review the drawings and makes his/her remarks on the drawings and then review the same after the remarks have been addressed by the drafter or client.
To make recommendations via some other communication such as faxes or phone or email would be more along the lines of what this law is trying to prevent, in that you would be aware of only a small piece of the big picture.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
If the customer simply gives you everything and requests a PE stamp, that's not showing you have control over the process. Bringing everything already prepared for you - including a signed check - puts you in a bind if there's something you don't like. After all, PE's aren't paid to not stamp drawings.
RWPE, I think you're fine from your original post. I replied to the other post to remind everything though that PE's aren't allowed to perform a cursory review of engineering drawings and calculations. Instead, they either need to do the calcs and drawings themselves or have someone do it that is under their direct control.
RE: Work by others, non-engineers
The State Board even said that nothing was incorrect with the drawings or calculations. We did discover that many States do allow you to review and seal the work of others. Some States even allow you to take someone else's signed drawings, alter them, highlight what you changed and double seal the sheet.
To answer your questions. If you are given a complete plans for review check with your State Board first. If someone brings in to you a "plan" and you provide all details and calculations I don't see that being problem in any State. That is typical on almost every project.
Be sure you only sign drawings for what you are licensed in, many State's are cracking down on Engineers and Architects signing outside of their discipline.