UPS reactive power supply ?
UPS reactive power supply ?
(OP)
Per manufacturers' data, the output power for a UPS is limited by its apparent power output [kVA] and its real power output [kW].
EX. for a 100 kVA rated UPS, its real power output is listed as 80 kW. That would be equivalent to assume that the UPS can deliver a maximum of 60 kVar. Where does that reactive power come from ? Adjustable capacitors on the output ?
EX. for a 100 kVA rated UPS, its real power output is listed as 80 kW. That would be equivalent to assume that the UPS can deliver a maximum of 60 kVar. Where does that reactive power come from ? Adjustable capacitors on the output ?






RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
If you have a look at the schematic of a standard inverter, in many cases what isn't shown is a 'hidden' device included in the switches (IGBT) of the inverter. This is an anti-parallel diode across the IGBT.
Any reactive current that is flowing uses the diodes in the inverter as there current path.
Some UPS systems also place extra capacitors, above and beyond what is needed for filtering, on the output of the inverter. These can be used to offset any inductive current. This keeps the current in the inverter and output transformer (if used) to a minimum.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
Thank you for your response. But you mention that the reactive power comes from the load. When the manufacturers indicate a power factor for the load, they usually mean a lagging (inductive) power. In order to cover that reactive (inductive) power requirement of the load, this power (reactive, inductive) has to come from somewhere, and it cannot come from the same load, because the load has an (inductive) power factor. The character of the load can be either inductive or capacitive (lagging or leading).
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
If the load is purely resistive then the UPS can support a load up to 80 kW; in this case there will be no reactive current as the load doesn't draw any.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
We could not clarify if the resulting power factor was a maximum or a minimum one, so, considering the maximum given values for the apparent power [kVA] and real [kW] we concluded that in this case there should be a maximum reactive power source [kVar].
So it has not been implied that it has to be a reactive current for any load, but, if a power factor of 0.8 was indicated (for a certain kVA rating) it has to exist a reactive power source (as sqrt((kVA)2 - (kW)2)), otherwise the statement of a power factor makes no sense.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
You usually think of battery capacity in terms of energy (amp-hours) instead of power, however, so my analysis may be all wet. Maybe the real power limit is based on the battery amp-hour capacity and the design time of battery operation.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
Short circuit the secondary of the transformer and power it with a variac from the UPS. The current will be almost all reactive. Balance this against the conventional load bank to get maximum kW at maximum KVA. Use the %impedance rating on the transformer to calculate the voltage needed to develop the amount of reactive current that you need.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
But in this case, since the UPS is to be run normally (when the power grid is on) connected to the grid (on-line), the power flow is from grid via rectifier-inverter-load, the battery kicks in only if the grid is down.
Indeed, the battery capacity is usually given in Ah, its voltage being determined by the type of batteries used, but in the end is the energy V*A*h considered.
But exactly as you would discharge a battery by connecting the load between its terminals; the connected resistance determinates the current, which, having the voltage gives you the discharge power. The maximal discharge time is based on up to where do you want to dischage the battery. But the discharge power is limited only by the cable, since you can short circuit the terminals if you have a thick cable. In this case the resistance is low, the current high and the available time low.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
A quick hstory lesson. Up until approximatly 10 years ago computer power supplies always (OK, nearly always) would draw a lagging current and so UPS manufacturers therefore designed their UPS to supply this load profile. This is why we have the standard 0.8 PF for a UPS. What wasn't specifically mentioned was that the load was assumed to have a lagging power factor and the design of te UPS took this in mind.
Then about 10 years ago computer power supplies began to improve. The power factor of these supplies began to move closer to unity and in some cases actually began to go slight (0.95) leading. This then began to cause problems for some UPS systems and there was many cases of systems goign into overload or shuting down due to overheating even though the indicated load may have only been 80%. As I stated in my first post many manufacturers used additional capacitors in the output to offset any inductive current in the output. If the load then became capacitive, the inverter and output transformer then had to provide the capacitive current to the load as well as supply the capacitive current to its own intergral output capacitor.
Some manufacturers have addressed this issue and now have UPSs that are still rated at 0.8 PF but rate this at both capacitive and inductive loads. These UPSs can then supply full rated current from 0.8 leading to 0.8 lagging, noting that there is still a kW limit on the UPS.
As to your situation, you need to know how the UPS is rated and the manufacturer or consultant should be able to provide this information. You also need to know what your load profile is going to be. If your load is going to be capacitive there is no advantage in testing the UPS with an inductive load.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
The current drawn by a short circuited transformer is mostly reactive.
Hook the variac in parallel with the resistive load bank.
Use the load bank to supply the resistive load, and use the variac driving a shorted transformer to supply the reactive load. The shorted transformer will draw some real current to supply the resistive losses. If you have instruments to measure the power factor you can vary your resistive load ank with the inductive load bank so that the Watts consumed by the resistive load bank plus the Watts consumed by the shorted transformer equal the Watt rating of the UPS under test, and the reactive current is adding enough current to reach the KVA limit.
With a UPS rated for 100 KVA and 80 kW you will want 60 KVAR. I would run the reactive load bank up to about 50 or 60 kW. Then add the shorted transformer. Increase the variac until your instrumentation indicates 50 KVARs.Then add enough resistive load so that your total kW = 80.
At this point your transformer should have a combined load of 80 kW and 100 KVA.
If you want to test with a leading power factor, Connect capacitors to the variac instead of a transformer.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
If plugged into a generator the inductive current, caused by the load, will flow in the windings of the generator.
In the UPS these currents will flow in the inverter of the UPS. As mentioned in one of my posts, this is why the switching devices in the inverter have an anti-parallel diode.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
What is happening is that the load characteristics are such that the current is either lagging or leading the voltage. There is no "Reactive Power Generator" in the load. Reactive currents and reactive power are a way of describing and quantifying the phase shift between the voltage and the current.
If you want to test the functioning of a supply with a power factor rating other than unity, use a load or combination of loads that draws current at the appropriate phase angle.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
If you connect an inductive load(i.e.normal induction motor) to a power network it will need reactive power for its magnetization for operating and the network (either grid or standalone) will provide it, as described above.
If, assuming that all current (corresponding to the max kVA rating of the UPS) flows through the inverter, and this total current is independent of the load power factor, what will be overloaded in this case? If the inverter components are sized only for the active current ( in our case corresponding to 80 kW), what provides the 60 kVar that it is guaranteed to provide at the rated values 80 kW/100 kVA ? As you mentioned earlier it has to come from capacitors.
What is that antiparallel diode system supposed to do ? If it is to prevent reactive currents from flowing into the UPS inverter, the circuit is closed via those diodes, no reactive power is provided to the load (i.e. induction motor).
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
Don't try to determine where reactive power comes from, it is imaginary.
Phase shift. That's all. When we get this worried about where "Reactive power" is produced it's time to stop and remember that "reactive power" is a convenient way to describe a phase shift.
The UPS must accept a load that may cause a phase shift.
If you want to test a UPS' ability to accept loads that may cause a phase shift, don't go looking for a "reactive power generator" to rent. Use a load that causes a phase shift. That's what you want to test, the ability of the UPS to accept any load within its rating.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
"In the UPS these currents will flow in the inverter of the UPS. As mentioned in one of my posts, this is why the switching devices in the inverter have an anti-parallel diode. "
The reactive currents DO flow in the inverter, and this is what the anti-parallel diode is for - to provide a current path.
You don't need capacitors on the output of the inverter, except for a small amount required for filtering.
"Some UPS systems also place extra capacitors, above and beyond what is needed for filtering, on the output of the inverter."
Again the key word is SOME. Most manufacturers have gone away from this topology as the load profile has changed due to better power supplies.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
Guys, please don't forgot, lot of our formulas are only math, not some phisical issues. Reactive power, symmetrical components, harmonisc, etc.. are math.
We have only current, votages and angle between them. It's all.
Best Regards.
Slava
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
So, as mentioned in my previous posts, the question arose from a practical situation: the load to be supplied by a UPS had a power factor which exceeded the indicated output power factor stated by the UPS manufacturer, a fact that, in turn, questioned the suitability of the UPS for the envisioned load(by a blank statement that something will be overloaded). Usually, a better power factor is desired everywhere, for obvious and clearly stated reasons. It seems that in this case, a lower power factor is preferred/acceptable (i.e. 50 kW at 100 kVA would be considered OK), a fact for which we tried to find an explanation.
If anybody has been involved in factory load testing of a UPS, I would appreciate if he/she could send me a set of measurements. I hope that those measurements will not be treated as trade secrets, since those tests could be reproduced by a user with proper equipment. The results, if properly gathered and interpreted, have to match the ones guaranteed by the manufacturer.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
As for the math vs. reality discussion, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the math part as merely a tool. Most of the mathematical entities we use to are readily observable. Real and reactive power can be measured by physical meters. Some utilities install induction disc VAR meter for power factor billing purposes. Where reactive power comes from and goes to is a matter of semantics, just as with real power but less intuitive. Normally inductive loads are defined as a 'consumer' of reactive power and capacitive loads are 'producers'.
Harmonics can be heard by ear (ever listen to a transformer supplying a large rectifier load?) Negative sequence current causes motors to overheat because it is rotating in the opposite direction as the rotor, etc. Mathematical tools are not always just tools.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
tomad, a lot of this just comes down to what UPS manufacturers have been designing for the last 30 years or so. Most manufacturers haven't changed which is why you still have the ratings of 100kVA @ 0.8 P.f.
When the system is designed the power sections, rectifier, boost section (if used), batteries, inverter and all associated cabling is then calculated using the real power, in this case 80 kW, that the UPS has to supply. If the output power exceeds this 80 kW you then begin to overload these sections of the UPS.
It is purely a cost equation.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
We tried to contact manufacturers for clarification, but were usually directed to (local sales)representatives whose main task is to market a product, technical hotlines experts were unfortunately not more helpful, so here we are.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
The red arrow shows the current path of current that is in phase with the voltage - the IGBT is turned on.
The black arrow shows the current path for the out of phase current (reactive) and shows the current path for when the IGBT is turned off.
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
It is really time to get a third year electrical apprentice textbook and brush up on inductance and phase shifts.
That this issue has been fought so long may indicate a lack of necessary basic knowledge.
Don't fight the problem!
Hi alehman:
A couple of friendly comments.
That is a valid question. With current flowing when there is no voltage, and at times the current and the voltage flowing in the opposite direction, how does the lagging current get through the switching devices? The diodes that sibeen shows are passive and always available to provide a path for the reactive current. These will have a current rating, but as long as you stay within the maximum current determined by the maximum KVA rating you should be within the current rating of the diodes.
The reactive current and the voltage are 90 degrees out of phase. The product of two quantities acting at 90 degrees to each other is zero.
For many decades power companies measured the imaginary reactive power with off the shelf kilo-watt-hour meters. There was no such thing as a kilo-var-hour meter. They fooled the meter with a set of coils with low resistance and high inductance. These little phase shift sets were used to shift the phase angle of the voltage supply to the voltage elements of the kilo-watt-hour meters. They were kilo-watt-hour meters and thought that they were measuring kilo-watt-hours. They were fooled into indicating KVARHr consumption.
Until the advent of digitizing and computer algorithms, all VAR meters that I am familiar with used some technique to fool the meter by shifting the phase of the voltage 90 degrees.
BUT, when you have a phase shift, it may take 100 amps to do the work normally done by 80 amps.
The work was called watts.
The product of the current and the voltage was called Volt-Amps.
How to explain the discrepancy? When the phase angle was observed on a dual trace scope, it was noticed that the phase angle and the watt and VA vectors formed two sides of a right triangle. Pythagoras came through and they were able to reconcile the third side of the triangle. Because it was a product of the reactive current they called it reactive power. But power does work and reactive power does no work. It can't, it's imaginary.
BTW a star for siben.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?
Thanks for the sketch. Do you think we can safely assume that all UPS's use the diode scheme you show? I'd still want to run it by the manufacturer if possible.
Bill,
I agree, except perhaps the last two words. We call reactive power "imaginary" based on the mathematical tool used to represent it. It is imaginary (in the Layman's sense) only in that it does no useful work, unless producing heat is useful for some reason.
Using your Pythagorean analogy, think about pushing a car up a hill. You are pushing parallel with the hill, along the hypotenuse of the triangle. That force is translated to a horizontal force component against the hill and a vertical force which takes some of the weight off the tires. These forces can be represented mathematically by a horizontal ("real") component and vertical ("imaginary") component. Both force components are very real, but only the horizontal does any useful work (moving the car forward).
Sorry for the off-topic diversion.
Alan
RE: UPS reactive power supply ?