NX6 Move Object & Transform
NX6 Move Object & Transform
(OP)
As a UG user since the 80's, it was hard enough to keep from reaching for the Transform button to move or copy, but why couldn't NX keep the move/copy pick choice at the end?
Countless undo's because the last one was set for copy, or trace lines, or 12 copies when intention is a simple move etc.
The one thing I would wish to change (back) is to choose move or copy as an entry complete rather than return what ever I did the last time, and maybe default back to one copy & no tracelines.
Sorry, just venting, but a lot of time is wasted checking the list before completing a simple move or copy, then breaking my train of thought having to undo and set it up again.
-ph-
Countless undo's because the last one was set for copy, or trace lines, or 12 copies when intention is a simple move etc.
The one thing I would wish to change (back) is to choose move or copy as an entry complete rather than return what ever I did the last time, and maybe default back to one copy & no tracelines.
Sorry, just venting, but a lot of time is wasted checking the list before completing a simple move or copy, then breaking my train of thought having to undo and set it up again.
-ph-





RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
NX Design
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Erik van Diepenbeek
Zebra-cad 3D services
The Netherlands
www.zebra-cad.com
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
--
Bill
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Kirk Alderfer
Technical Cartoonist
Engineered Fabrics Corporation
Rockmart, Georgia
"Imagination continually frustrates tradition, that is its function." -John Pfeiffer
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
And while you're at it, retain the geometry (like the old transform) so that I can move it again in another axis without having to re-collect the geometry?
-ph-
"Anything's possible. Just change the equasion."
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
What 'Copy' are you talking about? The 'Copy' to the clip board or some other 'Copy'?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
I just got off the phone with our local support person, Rob Cohon, and he told me that to incrementally move an object you would set the snap increment and drag it. However, he did not find the generic point menu allowing one to move the object to any point using the 10-key pad. I am now worried that you have to now use the "selection intent manager" to turn on and off origin and destination point - a very cumbersome method at best! If I want to rotate that same object, it wasn't clear as to how to rotate it about some arbitrary coordinate system.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
And what do you mean by using the 10-key pad?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
As for the 'Delta X,Y,Z' method of defining how much to move an object, that is being added to Move Object in NX 6.0.2.8, which will be released very soon.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
'Move Object' moves/copies fine when using Dynamic.
You can move in x, drag or type in value, then Y, then z without re-collecting objects.
When moving or copying with distance, you must apply each move along a vector. Once you apply, you then have to re-collect the objects to move in another direction.
The change coming in NX 6.0.2.8 is to keep objects collected after apply? (like transfom to move again in another direction)
Is there an edit parameters option to change it from a move object to a copy object or visa versa in the works?
Thanks John...
-ph-
"Anything's possible. Just change the equasion."
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
And NO, we have NOT modified the behavior of 'Move Object' relative to retaining the selection of the moved object, except when using the Dynamic method, which covers move along an axis, rotate about an axis and move to a selected point.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
It sounds like there are some radical changes to geometry manipulation in NX6, and as a result I will be getting NX6 on my computer as early as tomorrow to do an evaluation of this new functionality.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
I won't be getting my eval seat of NX6 until Monday, so hang tight for my feedback on this topic...
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
NX6 has the best combination of features EVER. Transform and Move Object have seperate icons & function differently.
Transform still scales, mirrors, arrays etc., it just doesn't move or copy any longer.
Move Object is COMPLETELY different in its pick and options than Transform, but has much more options than transform had.
You'll love it... especially the Synchronous Modeling.
I blow away my parameters & keep going all the time.
-ph-
"Anything's possible. Just change the equasion"
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Thanks for the words of encouragement! I have been using the "dynamic modeling" method for 25 years now. History-free conceptual modeling before "locking down" sketch-driven solids has for me been the ultimate productiviy tool in design. I will still have to shake NX6 out in the demo seat (which I still haven't gotten) to be sure that something isn't left out...
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
As for the "extremely slow drop-down menus", starting with NX 6, virtually EVERY drop-down menu found inside one of the new style dialogs, you now have an option to see those options as either a drop-down menu OR as a small panel of icons (toolbar) of the most commonly used options instead, which means that if you tend to only use a couple of different methods, these will be the ones always available, using a single pick, if you turn this option on. Note that this is controllable by the user on a dialog by dialog basis and the settings are captured by dialog memory. To change any dialog drop-down menu to a 'panel' of icons, just open the drop-down list and select the last option, 'Show Shortcuts'. Later, you can return to a drop-down only scheme, by selecting the 'Hide Shortcuts' option.
Also note that in NX 6.0.2.8, we have made several improvements in the way some of the options are labeled and how they work together as well as adding an explicit 'Delta X,Y,Z' Motion option, which will support entries relative to either Absolute space or the current WCS, although if you're creating an Associative move, the Parameters (Expressions) created will be relative to the absolute frame of reference since that is the only scheme used by the database for any 3D data points/distances.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
True - but you only get 4 at a time.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
In this example I am attempting to rotate a bunch of objects around and arc center, then changing to rotating them via the three-point method:
> Edit object display (change color of items to move beforehand
> Ctl-Shft-M to enter "move Object" dialog
> Pick the objects that were re-colored
> Move eyes to dialog box to scroll down to "Dynamic" mode
> Check "move handles"
> Move eyes from dialog box to model to drag and slide origin of active CSYS. -continued
> Move eyes back to dialog box to uncheck "move handles"
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
> Move eyes back to model to click on proper csys "ball"
> Zoom in to view motion
> Mouse over to register to type in an increment to move
> Hit enter button multiple times until object is moved to the right position
> Move eyes over to dialog box and mouse to "apply"
> Re-select objects that had the color change (now you know the reason - NX6 does not "keep" the selection.
> Move eyes back to dialog box to scroll down to "Three Point Method"
> Start picking points and changing selection intent by taking eyes off model and toggling on and off various points
> Scroll down to deep menues for any points not appearing on intent manager toolbar. continued...
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
> Ctrl T
> Pick Objects, middle mouse button when complete (eyes on model)
> 10-key pad 3-7 (eyes still on model)
> Pick arc center
> enter angle increment in default pop-up
> middle mouse button until objects reach destination
> shift-middle mousbutton (back)
> 10-key pad 3-2 (two point method) - eyes still on model
> select 3 points and move
In summary, NX6 - 16 steps, 6 back-and-forth eyeball moves
NX4/NX5 - 9 steps, 0 back-and forth eyeball moves - continued
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
My only question to the NX6 developers is "why"? Why couldn't you keep the accelerators there? Clearly, the back-and-forth eye movement, the broken up flow, the "scroll-downs" and lack of object retention has severely impeded day-to-day productivity in the "move object" function.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Nx6 - 16 steps, 6 back-and-forth eyeball moves and 17 mouse clicks
NX4/NX5 - 9 steps, 0 back-and forth eyeball moves and 5 mouse clicks.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Now I'm not claiming that we've addressed all of your issues, but we have responded to many of the issues we did get early feedback on and we feel that things are now better in terms of usability. However, that being said, despite what you've claimed, the old Edit Transform code was some of the oldest in NX as well as having perhaps the worst user interface design left in the product and anyone trying to use it for the first time would not be impressed that he was using a modern up-to-date CAD package. It was based on a menu style and an interaction scheme that was introduced during an era long before Windows came on the scene.
I'm sorry, but you need to take the changes made to any one functional area in the context of what's happening with the rest of the product since consistency and common tools are always a desirable goal.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Erik van Diepenbeek
freelance design engineer
www.zebra-cad.com
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
So if you're wish to wait until we change our minds, that's your choice. But we are spending our development resources on other much more important projects intended to provide benefits to as wide a set of customers and users as possible, not focusing on how to preserve obsolete and out-dated behaviors while trying to keep our products both competitive and easy to learn and use. To expect us to do otherwise would be naive at best.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
I guess the TASK IS OVER when the CAD system decides, not the designer decides...
I'm sorry, I thought I was done here and made my point.
Maybe we all have to step back a little bit and review what the purpose of CAD is. I remember using the rotary eraser in drafting to make changes. CAD made this a lot easier. Now I see UG making even the most basic moves very complex and time-consuming. You have Bigger things to work on? What could be more important the "move object"? continued...
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Yes, you need new customers, but what about existing customers? Skip my company - what about all the existing users in Detroit - can they really afford such a productivity hit at this time?
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
I still forget to check whether Copy or Move is checked. Undo.
There are a lot of changes in each major release. Each time I have to think about how do something, it detracts from what I'm doing. My co-workers have heard it with each release, since V5. They also hear the Oooh's & Ahaa's once I 'get it'.
I gripe and complain about having to stop & think about the process, but now that I have re-learned that process in NX6, it is seamless and a heck-a-lot faster than it was the old way.
& I'm too old to learn ProE.
-ph-
"Anything's possible. Just change the equation"
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
And for the record, this had been our policy for several years, ever since we started to move away from dialogs which consisted of only option buttons arranged in roughly 'rows & columns' (sound familiar?). One of the reason that the Edit Transform was still supporting this is because, as I've alluded to on several occasions, those dialogs were using some of the oldest code left in NX. Perhaps we would have been better off to have just disabled the entire 10-key adder support in one single step when it became obvious that our long term direction ideas about dialogs was no longer going to be able to support anything like this. At least it would have all come out at once and we could gotten over it long ago rather than letting it die a slow lingering death.
This is a PFK and below is a little tutorial which explains how Unigraphics worked when I first learned to use it some 32 years ago!!!
http://plmworld.org/museum/hall/UGI_exercise_1.htm
Perhaps now you'll better understand now from where some of this legacy stuff came from and why it's called LEGACY and why we would just as soon be done with it once and for all.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Perhaps the next image you should post is the keyboard itself, because, at the rate you are going, that will also be eliminated as an input device for NX.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
...but if it ever comes to past, the role we played will be minuscule compared to some of the other 'players' working on this
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Too bad the article didn't have any nuggets for the techies - note the glaring omission of I/O. It makes one question whether the article is a fake...
As far as I know, we have 20 really fast I/0 - fingers and toes. I would be OK with taking my shoes off if it could double my CAD speed; unfortunately, the world of CAD is migrating to what looks cool to managers...
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: NX6 Move Object & Transform
Being forced to use the mouse for inputting all data does level the playing field relative to handicapped people - perhaps that is the purpose of the changes we are seeing...