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Exempt??

Exempt??

(OP)
I hear the term "Exempt employee" used to describe engineers in the USA.  I also hear the term: "Non-exempt employee".

What exactly is an exempt employee exempt from?  The word would normally mean that he/she doesn't need to obey some kind of (restrictive) rule, but it seems more like he/she is exempt from the hardship of being paid fairly (e.g. overtime).  So its useage in this context seems to be opposite its normal use in other contexts.

Why bother with the term "Non-exempt employee" at all.  It's two cancelling negatives.  Why not just say "employee"?  I wouldn't go into a shop and ask for a packet of "Non-broken" biscuits.

 

- Steve

RE: Exempt??

(OP)
Oh yes, I've read all that stuff.  I think I was exempt myself when employed in the USA.

My question was the counter-intuitive (stupid in my mind) use of language.

- Steve

RE: Exempt??

==> My question was the counter-intuitive (stupid in my mind) use of language.
Because we're talking about legal terms, and that mean lawyers.  When lawyers get involved, intuition flies out the window, and all terms must be explicitly defined.
 

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Exempt??

I think this all comes down to the unions.  If an hourly person works overtme, that person has to get overtime.  Where as salary people do not have to get overtime.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."  

RE: Exempt??

They created the exempt employee category.

They then had all these employees that weren't in that category that they had to call something..

The term employee covers both groups so would be confusing if you also used it to describe specifically those that aren't exempt.

So hence the term non-exempt employee.

As to what they are exempt from, while it varies by state (I believe) it basically means they are exempt from (some of) the various rules/laws about how many hours someone can work, and other related employment laws.  To qualify as exempt you usually have to get paid X times the minimum wage, though I believe this is not the only qualifier - you must actually be working in an exempt category.  So more base money but crappier work conditions.

Or something like that.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Exempt??


CajunCenturian,

It's worse than that.  It started with lawyers who were also government employees.  Not only does intuition and logic fly out the window, but so does a major chunk of deductive reasoning.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Exempt??

"Exempt" is simply shorthand for "exempt from overtime regulations." The non-double negative (is this a triple negative) phrase would be "subject to overtime regulations."
If that were shortened to "subject", it might sound bad.

RE: Exempt??

(OP)
Whereas in normal usage, being exempt from something is generally a good thing (like being exempt from taxes, exams, etc).

- Steve

RE: Exempt??

It's a good thing from the employers point of viewwinky smile.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Exempt??

Eligible and ineligible might have been better classifications from the employees' POV.

Exempt from = Eligible for
Nonexempt from = Ineligible for

cheers

RE: Exempt??

(OP)
Except it's round the other way.

Exempt = Not covered by laws to protect the employee.  So not eligible for anything.
 

- Steve

RE: Exempt??

Eligible to be screwed, really.

V

RE: Exempt??

Here's a nice info site:
http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

Quote:

An exempt employee has virtually "no rights at all" under the FLSA overtime rules.

I agree that it's a misuse of the term "exempt".  "Exempt" means free from liability or obligation.  It does not mean "unentitled".  So, as someone else said, the employer is exempt, the employee is not.  However, there's nothing wrong with "non-exempt" as a contrast to "exempt".

Hg
 

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Exempt??

I had an HR guy once say that it means "you are exempt from the burden of collecting overtime pay".  Stupid use of the language, asinine concept, pretty clear once you boil it down.

David

RE: Exempt??

"Burden" lol

It is different for each state.  In California, it is based on the type of work you do first, then how much is earned.  If you are in a particular field and job type, you are non-exempt regardless to how much you make (like Police Officers).

Management positions are often exempt regardless of how little you get paid.  There have been exempt fast food industry employees that make less than $30K per year.

Professional positions tend to be split by level of the position as much as the pay itself.

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group

RE: Exempt??

It also means 'exempt from being able to leave the office at the office'.  When our non-exempt employees get up from their desks and leave the office there is absolutely nothing they can do to accomplish company work while away from their work station unlike us 'exempt' stooges that have company phones, laptops and all the etc that goes with that.

rmw

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