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RCinVA (Structural) (OP)
19 Aug 08 17:21
So my boss is having me review elevator shop drawings for a 5 story steel building our firm designed. I'm having trouble understanding the terms and what exactly we (structural) are responsible for.

1. The elevations for the doors, show loads applied vertically, and horizontally. Are we, as the SER, responsible for this load? Or is this on the contractor as performance specs?

2. The model is a KONE elevator and it looks to be a motor that is hanging between the cars at the top of the shaft. Since this is my first elevator I'm reviewing I have no clue what their shitty details really are supposed to represent. The entire drawing is done showing a concrete slab and concrete beams, from G-Main Roof it is structural steel, so I'm confused on what is supposed to be done by us, and what is done by the elevator contractor.

3. What are the CWT, car and combo brackets? (I'm researching this, but I thought I'd ask it as well)

I want to struggle with it before I go bug my boss about it, but any help from you guys would be great.

Thanks.

RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke

 

JedClampett (Structural)
19 Aug 08 18:33
You're earning your money today.  I've worked with Kone drawings before and you're being too kind.  The mechanical room at the top was particularly confusing.  I spent a lot of time on the design drawings and still got it wrong.
The good news is that as I remember almost all their loads were pretty self contained within the side rail design, which they supply.  There is one member at the top of the mechanical room necessary for installation that we had to design.  They made it as difficult as possible to locate. And they were quite pissy about not doing it themselves, even though it was a idiot simple design once you knew where to put it.
CWT is counterweight.  As far as brackets, I'm not sure what they're after, but if you spend enough time with their drawings plus do a couple of shots of Jose Cuervo, they'll start to make sense.
hokie66 (Structural)
19 Aug 08 19:29
With a counterweighted elevator, the loads are taken at the top, rather than at the bottom as for a hydraulic elevator.  The elevator machine room dimensions and loads should be shown on the Kone drawings, although I agree they can be hard to interpret.  You should go back to them to clarify if the loads include the required impact factors.

As to the loads from the guide rails, doors, etc., it is my experience that you have to cater for these as well.  If you have a masonry shaft, usually there is not much problem, perhaps a bit of extra reinforcement in places.  
RCinVA (Structural) (OP)
20 Aug 08 14:44
Thanks for the comments so far, if nothing else, they've made me laugh.

Jed,
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who is looking at these things and wondering how these companies continue to spew garbage out like this. I feel like the structural guys always end up at the bottom of the totem pole. As for the shots, I'll have to bring the drawings home with me for that one, who knows, maybe it will help.


hokie66,
This particular unit has the machines "hanging" between the elevators and this particular model is "machine-room less". I do have some loads but not clear how or where to enforce them. They also do seem to indicate an impact load, but I will still ask the question. That's a good point.


Has anyone had to do this in a steel building? Any direction would be great.

RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke

 

structuresguy (Structural)
20 Aug 08 15:14
When I have done traction type elevators, with the equipment in a penthouse, the drawings showed the position of the hoisting machines, relative to the shaft, and identified point reactions from the machines.  They did not care if supported on steel beams or concrete slab, as long as they could locate their equipment how they wanted it.

I have designed both case (steel frame and concrete slab).  Typically, with steel beams, the support beams frame at odd angles across the shaft, to accomodate the orientation of the machines.  With concrete slab, it is very easy (12" thick typically works).

Are they showing point reactions for the suspended equipment?  If so, you would need to provide support.  They typically will not provide any structure at all.  Also, if the equipment is truly suspended, you may need to provide some lateral bracing for it as well.  I would try to set up a meeting with them, to go over their needs in detail if it is not clear.  they should have a local rep who could come to your office.

 
RCinVA (Structural) (OP)
20 Aug 08 15:22
structuresguy,
Thanks for the suggestions. I was hoping they would give me a plan that made it more clear of where the loading was required. All I have is the elevator drawinsg with dimensions and they show the machines, but not how they are loaded. I also get some rail loads, and I do have full vertical loads, but I don't know exactly where the machines are to be supported.

These are shop drawings, so I don't know if we'll have that time to get someone in here, but I'll see what my boss thinks of that.

RC

RC
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke

 

hokie66 (Structural)
20 Aug 08 18:06
RC,

The "machine-roomless" elevator is a new one on me, and I am afraid you need to meet with them to find out what is required.  Good luck.

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