help slowing down electric motor
help slowing down electric motor
(OP)
I recently purchased a dough kneader from france, but it is moving too fast to properly mix the type of bread that I prefer. I originally tried hooking the mixer up to my variac and even when lowering the voltage the mixer speed did not decrease. As I am learning I might need a variable frequency drive, but I have had a hard time finding one that puts out single phase, and I don't want to over buy on features. All I need is a simple device to cut the speed in half (or close to that), and exact speed is not critical. After four hours of calling places looking for one, I figured I should ask someone that knows their stuff if it is even what I really need. Here is what I know about the motor from the manual.
Motor:
Thermal protection, Single phase
110-120 V - 50/60 Hz - 650 W, 6 Amps
1500 RPM (50 Hz) - 1800 RPM (60 Hz)
Speed rotation : 84 RPM (60 Hz).
Let me know if you need any more info on the motor and I will contact the company with specific questions. I would like to thank anyone willing to help in advance, as I in am way over my head here!
Motor:
Thermal protection, Single phase
110-120 V - 50/60 Hz - 650 W, 6 Amps
1500 RPM (50 Hz) - 1800 RPM (60 Hz)
Speed rotation : 84 RPM (60 Hz).
Let me know if you need any more info on the motor and I will contact the company with specific questions. I would like to thank anyone willing to help in advance, as I in am way over my head here!





RE: help slowing down electric motor
There is no reliable way to slow a single phase motor.
Three phase with a VFD is The Way.
Possible solutions:
1) Contact the maker. You cannot possibly be the first to have this problem. They may have a retrofit kit.
2) Use a gearing change. You may have to find a tinkerer who can essentially hack your mixer.
3) Alter your mixing blade to effectively seem like the mixer is running slower. Like remove some center pieces.
4) Figure out if the motor is a standard NEMA frame size. If it is find a 3 phase replacement. There are VFDs that can run on single phase 120VAC and put out 3 phase 240VAC.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
h
They are one of the few companies who offer a 1ph in-1ph out VFD.
I understand they sell in the US via Bardac.
However, make sure the motor is suitable and do not just hook up your power supply of the dough kneader to the VFD as other devices internally could be connected to the same supply and you wouldn't necessarily want a PWM supply from the VFD feeding other devices.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
OK, here is a breakdown of the parts inside, so maybe it is possible to gear it down? Not sure who could do that for me if it is even possible.
http://www.santos.fr/images/vuesgif/18C000309.gif
And here is a schematic of the wiring (about half way down page)
http://
The wiring looks pretty simple in there. Can you tell from the schematic if I can just hook up the bardac? I am curious to find out how much that costs. Looks pretty fancy!
Maybe a new motor would be the cheapest alternative. I will try to find out from the manufacturer if they can give me more specs. I know they have said that they can't help me to slow it down.
You are all amazing!
RE: help slowing down electric motor
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
We rewinders have to look out for each other. ;)
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Can you see a make on the gearbox? I know a company called Parvalux supplied to a few kneading machines in Europe but not sure if this is one of theirs.
You might be a little stuck with fixed speed on this one. Go and buy a loaf
It seems a little strange that a machine whose sole purpose in life is to mix dough and it is not doing that right.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
$300 - 400. But hey, I am from India.
If there is a centrifugal switch or any such speed dervied device/relay, you might have to change that too.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
RE: help slowing down electric motor
It uses a Pressure Angle Worm Gear (high ratios).
Any changes will cause dimensional issues.
Then they used the motor as part of the structure so changing the motor dimensions will cause immediate issues also.
The only thing I can suggest if a rewind doesn't work for some reason would be a true hack.
You mount a motor parallel to the existing one.
You gut out the existing stator windings.
Cut a hole in the motor case and belt drive the existing armature from the new motor...
Now I ask.. Would it not be easier and cheaper to sell this pile on ebay and buy a better unit there?
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Overload at slower speeds; The drop in power is mostly from the drop in speed. The torque should hold up fairly well.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Am I out to lunch?
Roy
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Looks like the supply voltage frequency might be the key. The motor data says that it will run 300 rpm slower on 50 Hertz.
Now what could be done to lower the supply voltage frequency?
Maybe you could put together some sort of electronic gadget to to drop the supply voltage frequency.
Tom
None of us is as smart as all of us.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Looks like you might need to go to France and use 50 Hertz current to make your bread.
Tom
None of us is as smart as all of us.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
They may use belts or gears to drive the generator at the right speed. It can also be done with direct drive and different numbers of poles on the motor and generator. Direct drive gets big and slow and expensive at 60Hz to 50 Hz.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Yes I understand that the capacitor is there to give you a phase shift at starting, but that's my point. If you had a VFD producing 2 phases 90° apart then you no longer need the capacitor (not all 1 phase motors have one) or for that matter the starting switch.
Each phase could have it's own set of parameters set to match the respective winding.
The motor should develop more torque if both windings were allways in use, rather than one just taking up space.
You should be able to control from 0 - 120 Hz as per 3 phase VFD.
It may possible to use an existing 3 phase drive with just a firmware change, that would keep the cost down.
There are not that many variations on a single phase motor.
Sorry Selmerzodiac, for hijacking your thread.
I am interested to see what others think.
Roy
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Hey, guys I have found something that looks promising, take a look at it and see if it has merit for this application. Check the URL
http://www.anaconsystems.com/text/opti_e2.html
Tom
None of us is as smart as all of us.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Pricey!
Of course - it's "over the barrel" pricey.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Again, it only works on PSC motors (and Shaded Pole). This motor is not going to be compatible.
"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: help slowing down electric motor
http:/
Otherwise, sell it and buy what you really need, or learn to like another type of bread.
RE: help slowing down electric motor
Roy
P.S I will start another thread for single phase VFD
RE: help slowing down electric motor