×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Goulds Pump data

Goulds Pump data

Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Just finished looking for some Goulds pump data, the 3196 being discussed in another thread.

Went to the Goulds website and was told to download some pump selection active x program.  OK.

Had to register.  OK, filled in all that stuff.  At least a 10 character user name.  Finally.
Had to login. OK logged in.

I downloaded the PSS component and started it up.  Couldn't find any pump curves.  It asked for all the data needed to make a pump selection.  I filled in a bunch, should be enough to get the curve... I thought.  Still no curve apparent anywhere, nor any method to simply find a curve for an already existing pump that doesn't need to be selected.  I found the whole "selection" process so inconvenient that I wrote to the support group and told them that I would not specify a single Goulds pump until they improved the access to pump curve data.

Still don't have the curve data.

What were they thinking?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
I looked at that page.  OK.  I give up.  Where's the curve?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

BigInch

Agree with your comments re Goulds - cumbersome and if you just want a standard curve for an existing pump or the family to check an installation or selection it is useless.
Unless we are missing something in using their site.  

RE: Goulds Pump data

granted their selection process is not that great but when you enter your data be sure to check the NEAR MISS box and it will pull up the pump then click on the CURVES tab on the upper right and it gives you the curves

it then gives you the option to save the file as a PDF.  the attached is a quick sample i just entered bogus data to see how it worked.

Steven C
Senior Member
ThirdPartyInspections.com

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Thanks Steve!

I'm still not specing Goulds until they make that software smarter than me.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

an alternative would be to call their local distributor and have them provide the curves.

distributors have an internal link to Goulds and they use it every day, so make them earn their keep and provide you the curves.

Steven C
Senior Member
ThirdPartyInspections.com

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
I'm still not buying a pump, so its a waste of time, mine and theirs.  I know they probably see it as a method for generating sales, but in this case they're wrong.  Its only a waste of time for them.

I really like having the data I need easily available on the internet.  No fuss, no muss, no waste of anyone's time.  Solve the problem and get on to the next one.  

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

So what you're telling me is that room full of old paper catalogs shouldn't head straight for the recycle bin just yet?

We've found some vendors with great on-line resources- and others that seem to have forgotten about fully 1/2 of their product lines if you were to look at their websites only.

So we keep the paper, for now...

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
They sent me a work around for the program; you go to the last page and click "add" or something or other and it shows you the curves.  I'd never have figured it out myself in less than a week.

I guess I just have a problem being forced to use selection software in order to get access to a curve for a pump that was selected years ago.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

have to agree with moltenmetal, I also have a room full of "old useless" catalogues and curves. Still refer to them occasionally too! My wife doesn't see the use of them and given half a chance would happily dispose of them!
 

Mark Hutton


 

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
I'm putting them on DVD's, but ... its slow.
 

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

nothing like having it on paper, given a book full of curves is certainly quicker than downloading curve by curve until you hit the right one, especially if selecting a pump for a particular duty as it allows you to quickly compare various pump sizes, models and speeds, NPSH and efficiencies.  

RE: Goulds Pump data

sorry guys, i have to go with a well laid out electronic database.  using the right USER FRIENDLY search program can save a whole lot of time and trees!

unfortunately Goulds is not such a good example of user friendly.

Steven C
Senior Member
ThirdPartyInspections.com

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Artisi,  I would use their program solution, if I was selecting a pump.  That's what its for, so I'm willing.

eyec,
Agreed.  Just don't seem to be many of them.

They asked me for a link to a site I did like.  
I sent them this, saying all I wanted to do was to be able to find these kind of docs via Homepage-Pumps-ModelNo.
http://www.goulds.com/pdf/36-3756S.pdf
 

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

BigInch, being from the old school and not having this sophistication until just prior to quitting the pump game I find I am or was much quicker using a book curves - but then you young guys were raised with comps so it's second nature to you - but can you use a slide rule  bigsmile

RE: Goulds Pump data

As someone who also still clings to a lot of paper, but who also appreciates the speed of on-line (or software) catalogs, I find the biggest difference is the "feel" I get for the problem when using the paper solution.  When you can quickly flick through a printed catalog of curves and see where your operating point sits on several of them it gives more assurance that you have selected the "best" option.  When the computer picks its optimum solution, do we know that it followed the same logic we would have?  A company like Goulds would not issue software that does not pick the correct pump, but as I said I somehow don't get the same "feel" for the solution.

A similar example came up recently in another thread where someone was agonizing over the exact calculation of friction factors for liquid flow in plastic pipe. Now, I know BigInch is an even bigger fan of the Churchill equation than I am, but if you use the paper solution and plot your pipe data on the Moody chart you do get a better "feel" for the validity and accuracy of the answer than if you simply accept a single number spat out by a spreadsheet.

Katmar Software
Engineering & Risk Analysis Software
http://katmarsoftware.com

RE: Goulds Pump data

I agree re the "feel" especially if it is a multi-pump project you are selecting where you need to consider interchangeability of pumps and spares.  

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Carefull there Katmar! smile
 

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Goulds is now adding a search button to the selection software to reach the curves in a more user friendly manner.  Well ... its something.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

BigInch,

Goulds Industrial Biopharm Group (IBG), which includes the 3196, has a catalog out there with all of their curves for all of their models. It's called the GPM manual. I would ask their distributor for a copy. They give them away to good customers.

Their public PSS (Pump Selection Software) is lousy. I use it everyday. My company has access to their internal "Eprism" selection, configuration and pricing software, which works very well. I think the public PSS is limited, and therefore lousy, for legal/liability reasons maybe.

RE: Goulds Pump data

Being a relative young chap to the Industry, i kinda love those paper copies - i used to work for one of Goulds major competitors, had an internal support engineer (even younger) who used to tap the numbers into a computer and come up with a "selection" - the amounts of arguments this used to cause us was untrue "The computer says it is the right selection" but you knew it was not the right anumal for the job, but getting him to offer what was right was almost impossible.

This has had a massive effect on the Industry, finding good quality Sales Engineers who understand properly pumps AND systems is becoming more and more difficult the only ones to suffer in the long term will be the end-users as we are not there to simply sell equipment, but to also be able to support and help solve problems - that is why we have the title Engineer in our name.

Right, said my piece, i will get off my soap box and reduce my blood pressure accordingly...

Ash Fenn

www.cdrpumps.co.uk

RE: Goulds Pump data

Ash - I couldn't agree more with you, paper give you the opportunity to check and select a variety of pumps quickly for best fit, eff. etc before making a final decision as to the best one for that particular project / customer / site.  

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Does anyone have a pump mfgr's website that they do like specifically because of the ease of finding pump curves?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

There is really 2 sides to this,
1. You need a to be able to access a particular curve  ie the 3196 you mentioned earlier, I also looked at the same time for the same reason and gave up.
2. If selecting pumps by computor is your thing, then you need to be able to access a selection programme without a lot of hassle.

Some mentioned about the legality of using equipment selected by a manufacturers website, this can be easily catered for - ie, all care no resposibility without referal to the manufacturer or agent.

  

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Truthfully, I would't mind being able to tab-tab through pump curves.  Actually I think it could be pretty useful.  Paper's OK, until it comes to paying "air fright" invoices.

Legality is not a big issue to me, as I only do certified design work using certified curves anyway and everything else is marked "preliminary" "- bid information only" or "- not approved for construction".

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

A lot of public software by a variety of vendors, pump manufacturers included is intentionally vague.  They don't want their competition to be able to 'reverse engineer' their designs, etc.  In most cases it should get you to the size and class of (pumps or whatever) but their final selection and the "certified" curves that result are the last word.

rmw

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
I don't really think there's too much danger of reverse engineering a pump from its curve.  That's basically all I want to see.  I can wait for RFQ to return for the rest.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

"Progressing difficulty" is a term used in the software industry to describe an application that is written in such a way that a novice user can start using it with no training and a very advanced user can perform very complex transactions. MS office applications (such as Word & Excel) are, I think, excellent examples but I am not aware of any other application that comes close

PSS is clearly targeting the advanced user who is familiar with the product line and is willing to spend the extra time to learn, the hard way, the functionality that is available in order to search and display the pump performance curves in different views. Once you learn it, I think, it exposes functionality that is not available in other pump selection software

As JRLAKE mentioned PSS seems to be the pump selection module of an integrated application (Eprism) that handles a front to end process. This explains why the pump selection process is a not a series of choices is html format

From the data architecture point of view it is the right decision to have a single data source because the minute you start publishing pump performance data, in this case, in any other form it becomes outdated

I think Goulds could make some simple enhancements to their PSS applications to help the new user find his  way around (both from the product and the functionality point of view) because as it stands now it targets only the advanced audience
 

RE: Goulds Pump data


  www.nov.com have a very good selection of pump curves for their Mission and Halco pumps.

Offshore Engineering&Design

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Chief,

I looked about and poked around for awhile there and it took me too long to find the pumps.  And actually I haven't seen a curve yet.  I think it could be better.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not moving fast enough."
- Mario Andretti- When asked about transient hydraulics
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com

 

RE: Goulds Pump data

Biginch,

Maybe I can help you something,I have access to the Goulds Pumps internal Eprsim system.

RE: Goulds Pump data

buy a Union Pump.

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Why?  Just 'cause they have data posted somewhere or something?

"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

RE: Goulds Pump data

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.  I used their online pump selection and got curves right away.  Saved my searches and went back the next day.  What's the deal???

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
I guess I just have a thing about using a selection program to get a curve.

When I downed the program, I couldn't get the curve fast enough, but now they've made that easier (as a result of my complaint to them) and things are looking up, but I still just want to type www.goulds/3610x4x10 and magically have it pop into view.  Know what I mean?

"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

RE: Goulds Pump data

BigInch, there is a button on the pump selection screen that is labeled Search By Model And Size. If you click that button you will be able to select the specific model and size that you are looking for and view the curve. Hopefully this helps.  

RE: Goulds Pump data

(OP)
Yes, they added that button when I told them it was difficult to find what you are looking for.

"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

RE: Goulds Pump data

Just tried to spec out a pump in the Goulds tool and desisted. Apparently I have to know their pumps to use it, ehich I don't. I found this a little more useful http://www.pump-flo.com/ (And shows the curves!)

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying " Damn that was fun!" - Unknown>>

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources