Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
(OP)
Linked below is a spreadsheet I've set up for calculating positional tolerances.
Typically I wouldn't expect to need to fill in the top portion but if copy is needed for records etc then I thought it may come in useful.
Please feel free to use it and/or to give constructive criticism.
If members think it would be worth it I'll put it as part of a FAQ.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
Typically I wouldn't expect to need to fill in the top portion but if copy is needed for records etc then I thought it may come in useful.
Please feel free to use it and/or to give constructive criticism.
If members think it would be worth it I'll put it as part of a FAQ.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...





RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Im sure your intent is good. However, I see no particular benefit in using the spreadsheet. If the user does not how to apply the formula, there is a problem that I don't believe the spreadsheet will necessarily solve for him. Perhaps add to the confusion.
FWIW
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Thanks, KENAT!
I'll let you know when I use it.
V
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
If it increased efficiency, I say go for it. However, it does not illustrate the need for projected height. Or am I missisng something.
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
As regards not seeing the benefit etc. When I release this as a worksheet I'll add a worked example with some annotation/explanation etc. One of my goals for the year is to try and teach people about matching hole patterns & doing the tolerance etc. This only forms part of this effort.
As to all the pretty formatting, every now & then it's usefull/required to have a copy of a tolerance analysis for presentation/records, that's where it comes in.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
The longer I look, the more questions that arise. If this is a stud, which it appears to be, would you not tolerance the hole with the thread on the other end for starters?
And then apply a projection tolerance equivalent to the height of the stud which protrudes after assy?.
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
I've already addressed the protrusion issue above.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the be
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
I had a similar spreadsheet years ago at another company, but lost it. But never got around to recreating it.
It is also good to print out and send with the drawing to the checker.
Great job KENAT!
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
(By the way, the colors are a compromise between looking OK on screen and printing out OK in B & W/Greyscale.)
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. - Robert Hunter
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Trouble with that is if someone just saves the excel then opens the excel at a later date the date changes. Not a big deal for this but caused a pain when we had similar in one of our drawing formats.
A few things to think about:
Does it make sense to have 4 "clearance" or "interference" cells or would one be better. Each does it's own check but it's the same equation re-aranged, if ones 'clearance' obviously so are the others.
Also, on the image that ringman brought up. Just remembered the original had "MAJOR' under the FCF for the stud and I didn't copy it across. Thinking about it that made sense for a stud & I probably should have left it in. However I think what I'll actually do is create a new image with a classic threaded hole more like fig B-2 in Y14.5 and just add the annotation.
Any more constructive comments will be considered
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated Jul 13, 2008)
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
The field I put is blank but formatted for date.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
I've updated it with a more 'typical' figure closer to figure B2 in ASME Y14.5M-1994.
I've also given some examples showing how it can be used.
Please let me know what you think, if I've made any errors or it needs fine-tuning.
In return, I'll only charge you a nominal fee to use it
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
It's an awesome tool and has been very useful for me to double check my calcs (also much prettier :)
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Feel free to plagerize, maybe post it back here for others.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Tunalover
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Much of the time pencil & paper or maybe just mental arithmetic will be more than adequate. I have a learning disability which makes mental arithmetic a bit more challenging for me so on a bad day this spreadsheet (not fully populated) helps me out. Also sometimes I'm required to present my calculations in which case again this printout attached to the relevant drawing can be of use.
This spreadsheet was also developed to try and assist interns with Tolerancing.
It's not the be all and end all but just something I believe is useful in some situations.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
I don't do anything on paper anymore. If it is not saved in the project files it doesn't exist.
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Either the hole pattern is designed to fit or not is clear from the drawing and the calculation does not need saving once the drawing is released. It sounds like you spend a lot of time with excessive documenting when designing is time better spent.
Tunalover
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
You don't document the calculations you use in your designs?
Scary.
V
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Anyway, if you don't like it don't use it, it you have any ideas for improving it's usefulness I'm open to suggestions. However, decrying it as useless, when I've already had people here use it and find it beneficial, doesn't do much for me.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
In the section where you have the X Tolerance Range, Y Tolerance Range and the Equivalent Positional Diameter, I noticed your equation doesn't multiply by 2. In a book I have, it says to multiply by 2 to get the Equivalent Positional Diameter...
When I follow the equation in the book, I get exactly double what your spreadsheet gives me.
Books equation is SQRT(X^2 + Y^2)X2
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
So if the tolerance is +-.005, then tolerance range is .010.
See example 3 on the updated 4 September version.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
I agree that hand calculations are necessary to any responsible engineering decision...but, I suck at penmanship...I do my hand calculations in excel.
In looking at Kenat's spreadsheet...I think it is a good double-check instrument...but to rely on it?...I see that as turning engineers who should be "chef's"...into short order cooks.
I think Kenat's spreadsheet is missing a few assumptions which should be documented to be complete...I can't speak for Kenat, but I bet he has those in his own project notes..and I bet he could explain them if challenged...I'll bet you a nickel he doesn't just hand off the sheet and run...and I'd bet you another nickel he has not included them in the spreadsheet so the spreadsheet could be readable.
The biggest problem I see...is in Kenat's later thought that many engineers do not understand how to use the mathematics to describe the system...and without such spreadsheets...are they seem very willing to guess.
I'm usually given only a stack of drawing to checks. So, I see Kenat's sheet as an improvement...Even if we assume no improvement to drawing quality...I think I would still be able to easier see where an engineer made an error...and save me time.
My thought is that a few simple notes on another worksheet in the same workbook could accompany Kenat's sheet.
That would be a drawing checker's utopia.
Didn't we learn in school..."Show your work?"
Michael
GDTP-S0470
"Drawing checker who ain't ever seen Utopia"
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Would you mind me adding your spreadsheet to sw.fcsuper.com?
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
Be aware there is a glitch in the conditional formatting, at least on the version I released at work. One of the cells (can't remember which) indicated interferance if the result is actually a line fit. I couldn't work out what was going on.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
I'll just add a disclaimer like I do to my own works. If you know which field it is, can you give me a version with it highlighted to point it out?
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
KENAT,
Have you reminded yourself of FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies recently, or taken a look at posting policies: http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Appendix B4 ASME Y14.5M-1994 Fixed Fastener Positional Tolerance Calc.
"Warning: The information and formulae within the spreadsheet are based on tertiary sources, original research, particular assumptions and calculations. Some information or results may be incorrect. This spreadsheet, its information, and its calculations should only be used as a general reference. Always verify results. Use at your own risk!"
Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group