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Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

(OP)
Owner/Architect:  "Can you get the design done and the building built in 3 weeks?  

Engineer:  "Uh, maybe"

Owner/Architect:  "OK, great, let's get started."


Reality is like the handrail to the groin of a skateboarder.   No matter what the project has behind it, emotion, politics, or public momentum, reality always sinks in.   See this link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,374202,00.html

 

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

It's a shame, I thought the Freedom Tower would be a real positive for the people of New York, post 9-11.  Much like the peace shrine at Hiroshima.

JAE, I noticed you have a theme going with Tall Buildings.

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

It is like the joke......

What are the 5 stages of project development?

Wild Enthusiasm
Disallusionment
Panic
Search for the Guilty
Promotion of the Non-participants

(not too far from reality)

 

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

(OP)
asixth,

Yes, well...tall buildings are perhaps the structural engineering equivalent to landing a man on the moon...great endeavors are always fascinating, don't you think?

jike,

Keep it going -

...promotion of the non-participants
consultation with attorneys
suits filed in "x" court
depositions
expert witnesses
counter expert witnesses
mediation attempt
mediation fails
delay the trial
further expert witnesses
....on and on and on....

 

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

Quote:

A transit hub, featuring a winged dome designed by Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, presents some of the greatest rebuilding obstacles because it affects office towers, the memorial and space for an arts center that surrounds it. Once budgeted at $2.2 billion, estimates have soared as high as $3.4 billion.

I guess they didn't look into how Calatrava's last U.S. project, the Sundial Bridge in Redding, CA, did in terms of budget and schedule.  Why people accept architects' dollar figures for construction costs is beyond me.  You want construction costs, you ask a contractor, not an architect.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

JAE:

I did a fast track project last weekend.  I designed and built a dog house - no, it wasn't for me.  Now, if there had been an Architect involved...

Everything is relative.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

(OP)
Mike, OK - I'm imagining a Frank Gehry doghouse.

woh.

 

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

No...that was the cathouse - dogs are more down to earth - literally.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

I think that JAE's additions to jike's post just fill in the step which jike left out: Punishment of the Innocent.

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

"You want construction costs, you ask a contractor, not an architect."

Contractors aren't psychic, either.
 

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

JStephern-

That's what contractors DO. That's all they do. They price sub contractors and get bids.

They are by far the best qualified to give you a reasonable estimate.

And to all of you who plan to deluge me with stories of how contractors are crooks and how they are incompetent, I don't necessarily disagree that many are so.

However, who has the best idea of what it costs to get things done?

The architect? Nah.

We, as engineers?  Perhaps I'm not doing my job, but I haven't the faintest idea of what something costs in absolute terms. I'm getting better every day at knowing which option is cheaper between two, but to know how much something costs outright? Nope.

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

"That's what contractors DO. That's all they do. They price sub contractors and get bids."

But they like to have drawings to work off.
Initial cost estimates requires a degree of psychic ability/guess work.

Collaboration between architect, engineer, contractor and quantity surveyor should give the best result, with pressure exerted on the architect if they're going over the top.  

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

apsix-

Good point.

No matter how experienced the contractor, an estimate means absolutely nothing if the drawings are lacking information.

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

Looks like they are including the 50% increase, graft and union for working in the big Apple.

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

As I recall we structurals had a saying, probably stolen from the aeronautics industry, that went -

You can have a Quality Design, Fast Design and or a Design to Budget, pick any two....

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
 

RE: Broken Teeth when hitting the wall of reality

Qshake--then add in multiple big-name architects, national emotions, an existing ongoing insurance claim...

Yee haw.  You don't need graft or any other form of corruption for this project to get completely out of hand.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

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