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On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees
6

On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
I am actually expanding this from another thread.

I understand that an on-line school is not the conventional way of obtaining a graduate degree for engineers.  However, as I understand it, what are the academic advantages of going to graduate school in person?  Heres my list:

1.  Ability to work in teams with students.
2.  Ability to ask professor for help in person.
3.  Attend classes in person.
Let me know if there are any other academic advantages that I am leaving out.

Here is how I would counter those advantages with the online degree:

1.  On-line Engineering graduate students still do team projects with other students.  Except in this case, most of the communication is done over the phone or email etc.  This is how a majority of the communication ie conf calls, emails, phone calls is done in industry, right?
2.  The same general answer as #1, except for anyone who is working at the time, if you cant get your answer from the professor over the phone/email, why not ask colleagues at work to help explain?  I'm sure they would spare a few minutes now and then to help you improve your technical capabilities.
3.  I believe that a technical engineering graduate degree is something that you should WANT to get.  If someone is able to read chapters, study examples, do excercises online etc., why shouldnt this be sufficient as a graduate degree?  Graduate degrees are meant to be a primarily an independent study anyway, right?

Everyone struggles when they need to balance work, family, school, and other personal issues.  The business world has certainly adapted to people obtaining their on-line MBAs, and I know that business classes are different than engineering classes, but isnt it time for engineering to evolve and adapt now as well?

What does everyone think?

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Although I agree that perhaps the engineering community should adapt and move toward more options for advanced degrees, I don't think we're there yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there really aren't any reputable schools offering on-line engineering degrees.

I'm sorry, but I think getting a masters in engineering from some obscure, no-name school may not be worth the paper it's written on. Please let me know if you know of any that are actually descent.

BTW, another advantage of doing a masters in person is the possibility of being involved in research projects.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I don't know anything about on-line graduate degrees, but one thing in your query raised my hackles.

My daughter recently completed her degree, and the worst part of the experience for her was the "team projects".  She had to do all the work and share the credit with the slackers.  I think that would be even worse when you can never get face to face with your team members.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

University of Idaho has a good Engineering Outreach program.  Not exactly "on-line" as course material is mailed weekly, but there are a good range of courses available.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

This is a rapidly evolving field.  Today, every "name" school has a distance learning department.  Most of the ones with engineering schools have undergraduate engineering degrees on line.  Many of them have Masters programs on line.  I think Georgia Tech was the first to have an MSME through their distance learning program, but many have followed.  I've never looked at the programs for Geotechnical Engineer, but I would expect that those schools with the department would be likely to incorporate the program with their Distance Learning programs eventually.

I interviewed a guy 5 years ago with a distance degree and found him to be as prepared for an entry-level job as any graduate from a traditional program and his diploma had the big-name school's logo on it--no different from the traditional graduates.

David

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

zdas04-

That's good info. Georgia Tech is a great school. I guess there are some good ones out there offering these programs. As I wrote in my previous post, I think the engineering community (or, more appropriately, Academia) should evolve to meet a changing employment landscape.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

My final year at uni I only attended lectures for entertainment value or social reasons - I covered most of the courses via the library. I've never quite seen the point of sitting in a lecture hall copying down what is written on a screen. Some of our lecturers were better than that admittedly.



 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
frv-
As zdas04 said, I'm only going to name a few more because there are so many:
North Carolina State University
University of Tennessee
University of Delaware
Auburn University
Iowa State University
Pennsylvania State University
Oregon State University
Villanova University

I agree with you on the research aspect.  I feel that if your goal is to do research, then online schools probably arent a good bet, especially since a phd is probably what you should be working towards.  But if you are in industry, a research project may not be as important as solidifying/gaining new knowledge which is what you will gain while in an independent study online format.

I also believe that obtaining a Masters degree online AFTER obtaining a BS on location at a school is a lot different than simply going online for a bachelors or bachelors and masters.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think there are many ABET accredited BS programs.  Remember up until recently ABET only accredits a schools BS or MS program, not both.  If it were up to me I would require an engineering student to attend classes on campus for the bachelors program.

A point that jives with zdas04s.  Obviously there are different caliber and rated schools out there.  When hiring someone do you automatically turn someone down if they havent gone to MIT, Cal-Berkeley etc.?  Obviously not.  After the top two tiers (top 20 schools?) how much of a difference is there between quality of the curriculum?  After all, I know engineers who have gone through good programs who can solve a nasty dif eq, but struggle to tie their shoes.  I believe a lot of what makes a good engineer is their experience and what they make of their experience.  BS and MS degrees just give that engineer the base knowledge.

hokie66-
Thats a shame, but I'm sure it happens a lot (and have seen it happen) in face to face schools, and in industry for that matter.  I guess all you can say is the people who did the work in school got a lot more out of it and are better engineers for it.

More feedback and input please??

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Other important issue for attending classes in person: networking.
 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

MedicineEng,

You make a point, but I think (particularly younger) people are becoming more and more comfotable with meeting/working with/networking with people they have not met in person.
 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I went to college after 6 years in the Navy.  I was married and lived 15 miles from campus.  I probably would have gotten more "networking" opportunities on a Distance Learning program than I did at school.  My son just spent 2 years in a BSME program at a large state school and all of his friends at the end were people he knew in high school (which I think was a factor in his leaving school).  Networking either happens or it doesn't.  It is a lot more about personalities than it is about education-delivery choices.

David

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Norwich University offers an online structural MCE degree. They are a private military university that has been around since 1819. It seems like they would be considered reputable after almost 200 years.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I didn't realize the number of degrees available from "big name" schools as online/distance programs. I would question the hands-on learning and laboratory experience. That was a big part of BSME, and don't know how well it could be done with an online program. Sure, the experiments could be video taped, but that's definately not the same. There is vaulable experience in determining what went wrong when your physics experiments give you an acceleration of gravity of 12 m/s2.

Anybody know how labs are performed in these programs?

Also, I don't know that networking can be performed the same over phone/email. There definately is something to working face-to-face that I don't think technology can replace.

If I were a professor, I think that it would be much harder to write recommendations and such. Generally, I think the an important aspect of the school experience is lacking in distance programs. I think some people may be able to compensate and excel with distance programs, but I if I were a hiring-manager I would definately scrutinize a candidate with degrees from a school where he/she hasn't set foot on campus a little more. Then again, I'm not a hiring manager...

-- MechEng2005

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Ohio State has an online welding engineering MS program.  You have to go to campus for a week or two over the summer to do the labs.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Here is another:
USC Distance Education Network
http://den.usc.edu/

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Actually, today it is more likely that an ABET approved engineering program WILL have a Distance Learning program than that they won't.  The things are becoming ubiquitous, whether the engineering community likes it or not.

David

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
Thanks everyone for your input.  

As far as labs go, I havent seen too many online programs that have them.  I am not very familiar with labs for Masters programs, do they all have them?  If everyone believes they are so valuable, how would the same experience in industry compare (for geotech, test boring inspection, test lab experience)?

As everyone can see, I am an advocate for online programs, and it may be because of my personal situation.  Here are my reasons why I think they are good for someone who is currently working:
1.  Ability to work on classes on your own time.(Avoid conflicts with work)
2.  Avoid transportation time/costs to travel to class from work.
3.  Continue to gain industry experience simultaneously.
4.  Opportunity for an "independent study" format on a topic you really enjoy as most classes are set up as "independent study" classes.
5.  Keep a job that you currently enjoy.
6.  Find a school that is cheaper than local schools in your area.

What is the overall industry view on an online technical masters degree?  

I would say they are the new way of the future especially for working professionals who want to continue their education.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Do any Candian universities offer on-line Master' degrees in engineering??

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

frv-
USC also has an online graduate program and they are a top ten grad school.   

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I guess that's where all the schools are going. Between USC and Georgia Tech, you've got two really  good schools offering online graduate programs.

 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I'm sure that for most schools it will be like it is with the  University of Idaho, it is the Outreach program that provides enough students to make possible a far broader program than could be provided with only the on campus students to draw from.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I took a number of undergrad classes via distance education (mostly online, but two were video courses) for my gen ed/humanities classes (none for engineering).  I am also taking one for grad school right now via distance ed because I really wanted to take the class but didn't have time in my schedule to make it to campus.  I must admit that I (personally) don't get as much out of watching the lecture online as I do when I am physically in class.  I still expect to get a pretty easy A, but the level of knowledge that soaks in really isn't the same.  Like I said, this may be a personal thing, but I am sure it doesn't apply only to me.
It happens to be ok for this particular class (wood), but if I did this type of learning for an advanced mechanics class or something along those lines I just would not have gotten what I want to out of the class (regardless of grade).  While I ALWAYS want to get an A, I would rather get an A- (maybe even a B+) and actually get more out of the class than get an A and not get as much out of it.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I can see this varying widely in how well it worked.

When I took chemistry, it was in a big lecture hall with a couple of hundred students.  There really wasn't much time for students to interact with the professor, and that class would have worked about as well on video.  But the girl I sat with was awfully nice, and I would have missed that.

When I took physics, there were about a dozen students in the class, and it was very easy to say "Hey, what about this?" or "Wait, I don't see how this equals that".  Most of my undergraduate engineering classes and math classes were somewhat larger, but still, it was an easy environment to interact with the professor.  I think those classes would lose a fair bit on video.

I don't recall more than one or two "team" projects in college, but that's been a while, so I don't know that I would miss that.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

It depends on what you make of it, but there's definitely a stereotype that the online degrees are worth less than a "real degree".  I've yet to find any of the really good schools offering it (UT, UofI, Purdue, etc)

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Quote:

I've yet to find any of the really good schools offering it (UT, UofI, Purdue, etc)

USC and Georgia Tech not really good?

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

2
I completed my MS in Mechanical Engineering a few years ago from Kansas State University (www.dce.ksu.edu), my alma mater.  I took exactly the same classes as the online students and had to do all the same homework, except I had to balance my school time with working full time and raising a family.  I think it was a great experience but it was very difficult.  I definitely learned a lot and the best thing about it was that since I was working as an engineer at the same time, many times I could apply what I was learning directly to my job.  Most of my classes were videotaped and sent to me, so I was about a week behind the rest of the class.  

I also am a proponent of distance learning graduate degrees.  I think a BS would be very difficult to do at a distance, because of the labs, etc. which is probably why very few do it.  Those who look down upon a graduate degree completed by distance learning have not really researched it or they have in their head the early "diploma mills" online universities that offered degrees based on "life experience", etc.  A graduate degree earned through distance learning at most reputable universities today is just as good or better than earning the same degree on campus.  And your transcripts will not differentiate between earning the degree on campus or at a distance.  Just make sure the program you are applying to offers an accredited undergraduate program.   

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

One difference would be no closed-book or proctored exams.  You could have someone else do the entire course for you and get the degree for yourself.  You could get away with that in a "live" course for homework and reports, but not exams.

Hg

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RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

UofI requires that all Outreach students have a proctor for exams.  Fortunately most of mine have been open book (both in and out of class students) and I've not needed the proctor for several terms.  I've certainly done all my work for/by myself.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
B16-  here are a few online engineering degrees offered by a few schools you consider "good".
https://engineering.purdue.edu/ProEd
purdue

http://online.engr.uiuc.edu/degrees.htm
illinois

If you ask me, to a certain extent a school is a school if all you are looking for is to broaden your knowledge or sharpen skills with an advanced degree.  It's different if you want to do research  with top professors mentoring you.  If you arent doing research for a MS or phd, do the classes really decline that much outside the top 3 or 4 schools in the country for each specialty?  I think a lot of classwork/projects/homework/independent study is what each individual makes of it.

I agree with jpank...BS degrees would be harder to do.  MS degrees where I believe the student SHOULD have a high interest in the subject matter- enables them to independently study the subject...hence an online degree.  

Now that it seems like NCEES and ASCE among other professional organizations are recommending a min of 30 addl credits after a BS degree for technical competency, I believe that online degrees are going to have to become more common.  Many people simply cant afford to go to school while not working and paying off BS degree loans/having their company help pay for the MS degree.

Would those of you hiring/department managers really discriminate against an online school if you heard someone went to one for a MS degree...whether it be for a promotion or a new hire?  What would the percentage weights be for considering a candidate if the categories were (consider all candidates have MS degree): work experience, name of grad school attended, recommendation by colleagues, interview.  

Dont know how many of them are really applicable because of various situations especially because recommendation probably far outweighs all others, but I am trying to get a feel for how much value/discrimination is put on online MS degrees.

 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Getting hired is a process, not an event.

A degree gets you into the interview (often times the name of the school will get you preference over other candidates, but not always).  The interview can lose you the job (rarely will one interview win you a job).  References/recommendations are not checked until you've made a short list (if then).

A distance degree is a degree and a hiring manager cannot tell from a CV if the person attended classes in an ivy-covered building or online.

I got my MS from night school at an auxiliary campus of the University of Colorado.  My diploma says U of C and doesn't specify either night school or that I've never been to Boulder in my life.  I expect an MS through a distance program is the same.

David

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

HgTX-
All of the online MS programs I looked at did require you to have a proctor for exams (if required - obviously not if the exam is open book).  I'm only in my third MS class (the quasi-traditional route of taking night classes, 1 per semester) and I've only had a very, very small portion of one class where it was closed book, and all of those questions were very qualitative in nature requiring no calculations whatsoever.

That being said, as I stated earlier, I know that I would get a lot more out of a class by being present in class.  I know that I don't put much time into a class outside of the actual classroom (unless the homework is being graded) and I have very, very poor study habits (I haven't studied for an exam................... well, ever).  I need to pay attention in class and it just sort of sinks in, so not being in class is detrimental to my learning, but I know that.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I was required to find a proctor for my exams every semester.  Mine was my HR manager.  She had to sign a form to maintain confidentiality, etc. and the exams were sent to her before I was supposed to take it.  She arranged a time and I had 1 hour to complete.  Sometimes exams were open-book but often not.   

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
Thanks everyone for their comments.

zdas-completely understood about the job process.  Thanks for your insight.

So what can we say about all of this?  Do we think Online Graduate degrees will become more common/more accepted in the near future?  It seems as though schools are forced to offer them, whether they like it or not, just because of the competition.

As some of you have said (structuraleit)  online school is not for everyone.  It requires a lot of discipline, concentration, and the ability to independently study.  So it is certainly a personal decision to go to school that way.    

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
FYI:

Here is a list based on price and school "best buys" for online schools.

http://geteducated.com/rankings/best_engineer.asp

The site also explains some FAQs about "distance learning" in their FAQ section.

 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

At least for structural engineering, I still dont see any reputable schools offering online degrees.  If Purdue or UofI would offer struct degrees online I'd probably jump at that...till then I'm not going to waste my time with Norwich, etc.

I disagree with the notion that a school is a school even if you're looking to broaden your skills.  I've seen firsthand how few tools people aquire from many programs.  A lot of programs are just passing people through and they're nowhere near worth spending your time and money.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Atomic-

I was going to mention that to certain extent. I don't know if "reputable" is the right word. Perhaps there are no "top tier" schools offering SE is a better way to phrase it. There are several schools on that list that are "reputable", yet not necessarily "top tier". Although, again, not in SE.

Having said that, I'd say Auburn and UW Madison are definitely top tier. I don't know if that applies to their online programs, though.

 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

atomic-
I generally agree with your posts, but I think I have to respectfully disagree here.
As for online structural graduate degrees - USC offers that and they are a top 10 grad program.  I am attending a program at a very reputable structural program that doesn't offer an online degree, but you can take all but about 3 or 4 grad courses via the web.  
Additionally, the few tools that many people acquire from many programs is likely a function of the person more than the program.  I doubt those particular individuals would gain more tools by attending a "better" school - they might not make it through the program, but I doubt many would leave with more tools.
It's been my experience (again, I'm only 3 classes in) that in graduate school, the professors expect you to be a little more independent than in undergrad.  I guess I'm just saying that if you are viewing the same exact classes as the "traditional" students and doing the same exact work why would the knowledge be considered inferior?  Again, this doesn't work as well for some people (myself included), but if you are truly about sharpening and increasing your skills/knowledge, people will do what they need to in order to gain said skills/knowledge.  I can't say this is the same for someone just trying to get a degree, but they can squeak their way through in-class just as well as a distance ed program.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

StrEIT-

I think he (and consequently my reply to him) was alluding to the schools on the link provided.

In general I agree with you about USC being a good school. I can't remember where they rank in CE or SE, but I believe the top tier in SE (say top 5-10) still don't offer online MS or ME programs. Someone mentioned Georgia Tech as offering online MS degrees. If they do, in fact, offer an MS in SE, then my previous statement is no longer valid.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

USC is #8 for graduate engineering.  US news and world report doesn't distinguish between disciplines.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

nice!!

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

The link given above was the "best buys" and so started with the cheapest (in-state) degree and moved up from there.  It is not a complete list of graduate programs offered online.  In fact, someone mentioned Purdue, and they do offer distance learning graduate degrees (https://engineering.purdue.edu/ProEd/), though not structural I believe.  As stated before also, Georgia Tech has been offering distance learning master's degrees for many years now.  There are many others.   

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Atomic,

I got a BSCE from Auburn and am just finishing my MCE from Norwich. I am happy with both degrees. We had our week long residency on campus recently, and I was very impressed with the intelligence and depth of thought of my cohorts. It was very different from my undergrad experience. I think you get out what you put in. If you plan to do the bare minimum required to pass, then you might get a better education at a better ranked school. If you plan to fully apply yourself then the school doesn't matter so much, IMHO. A huge part of being an engineer is developing the ability to teach yourself and to figure out problems without someone demonstrating step by step. I found that the online format worked very well with this philosphy. I had to figure it out, but I had knowledgable professors available to help me when I got stuck. It may not be your cup of tea, but I would do a little more research before ruling such a large number of schools out.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
Right, the link I gave above was just a "best buy" list of accredited schools....

I agree with some of you that say a Masters degree is what you make of it.  I dont believe you should have to go to a top tier school to get interested in the subject matter.  If you go for a MS degree you should be interested and self motivated to study.  If you have that, you will be asking questions (online in the class forum or in class) and have intersting discussions about any subject you desire to talk/learn about.

I think it all changes if you want to go to school for research, and eventually get your phd.  Obviously the top schools have more to offer because of the more distinguished professors.

Jorton-
I agree with you.  IMO, a MS degree gives someone a broader base of knowledge/technical skills in their specialty.  It is up to the engineer to expand and apply that broad base to specific projects they deal with in practice.  Regardless of where/how an engineer gets an MS degree it really depends on how they apply it in practice.  It is what the individual makes of it.

Jorton, you say the online format worked well for you.  What were most of the formats?  Discussions on boards like this through the class?  Independent studying/reading text?  Videos?  Group/individual projects?  Homework?

I think we will see a lot more of these in the near future, especially with ASCE/NCEES proposing a BS degree+30 additional credits as a minimum for licensure.  What better way to become an expert in your specialty than by working in practice for PE's, and taking online classes to strengthen your technical skills?  Seems like a good combination of learning for a younger engineer in an educational and an industry/practice format simultaneously.  You get your research project experience on a daily basis at work.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I looked into USC and it lost its coolness when I found they charge $4500 per online course.  Personally $45000 is as expensive as quitting work for a year and a half bit steep for a MS.

I looked into Norwich and I don't mean to offend anyone, but half the curriculum I did during undergrad and most courses look introductory at best. http://www.graduate.norwich.edu/civilengineering/curriculum_overview.php#0C

 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

b16a-

Agreed that Norwich's curriculum looks a little weak (no offense to anyone who may be in the program), but check out NCSU's course offerings.  Scroll all the way through and look for all of the structural classes, there are some in the 500's and some in the 700's.  They definitely look more like you would expect in a grad program.  I don't see anything "weak" about those.
http://www.ce.ncsu.edu/distance/courses/list.html

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

No offense taken, and you should guard your $30k to $45k well. The Norwich curriculum turned out to be more challenging than was expected, and I wasn't a slacker as an undergrad. If you want to become a seismic expert, or some other speciality, then it is probably not the right program. It does provide a much deeper study into the materials and methods that we most often use. I think it is more alligned with what we actually do at work rather than the academic side of the profession. I'm definitely not trying to be their salesman, I'm just suggesting folks look a little deeper. When it comes down to it I worked with idiots that had degrees from big name schools and very intelligent people with degrees from small schools. I don't think the school name on the degree makes that much difference.

Geostruct,
The format was the same for most of the classes. The information was presented through powerpoint/pdf lectures with LOTS of independent reading (usually from multiple sources). Occasional videos would be used to demonstrate principles. The professors were always available through discussion boards, email and even phone if necessary. There was LOTS of homework. Typically a paper and a design homework was due every week. There were several independent projects and several group projects. The group projects work just as most real life projects do. The work was divided and we used email to communicate and to put together our final products. There were required weekly discussions on various topics which really helped us get to know each other. I wasn't crazy about going the online route, but I knew it was the only way I would get the additional education. I am glad now that I did it.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Ok, well it does sound like there is A LOT of out-of-class work!  Like I said, I certainly meant no disrespect.  And like you said, don't judge too quickly.
As far as the school name on the degree not making that much of a difference......... I am firmly in your camp there.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

jorton,
That sounds like a hell of a program.  My experience in on-campus MSME was considerably less effective.  Every MSME program that I've looked at is as far from "what you do at work" as earthly possible.  We spent a LOT of time doing esoteric arithmetic and delving into derivations.  I can't think of the last time I saw a working ME or PetE even look at a PDE and a Laplace must be a location in France.  I wish my program had been more (maybe some) real world and less ivory tower.  Are all MCE programs you've looked at that practical?

David

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

zdas04,
I really have no way of knowing. They all put a lot into their marketing, but I don't think you can really know if its true unless you go through the program. I think with the MS with thesis you take around 15 hours of class and the rest is thesis work. With the MCE you end up taking 30 to 36 hours of class. There is obviously more room for practical classes in addition to the advanced math and analysis classes.

BTW, I think Norwich has reformatted their program. When I went through there were 10 - 3 hour classes and 1 - 6 hour  class. It included one advanced math class, two advanced analysis classes, three advanced design classes, three business classes, a MEP/GIS class and the capstone. I think they may have tried to combine all of this into 6 - 6 hour classes. I'm not sure how well that works, so I really can't speak for it.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Quote:


My daughter recently completed her degree, and the worst part of the experience for her was the "team projects".  She had to do all the work and share the credit with the slackers.  I think that would be even worse when you can never get face to face with your team members.  

Sounds like excellent preparation for the real world to me -- solve problems despite challenges.

SLH
who remembers just about killing & being killed by team members over disagreements about the English language but everyone pulling their weight.
 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I had two memorable team projects.

One taught me that sometimes it does help to have multiple minds on a project, even if I might think I'm quicker on the uptake than any of the other individual minds. I've always been a control freak because I don't trust the other kids at the crayon table to do it right; this project allowed me to let go of some of that.

The other got me some interesting pre-management experience. My teammates were such idiots that I was having to stay up all night correcting their work just to bring it up to mediocre. I finally got permission from the professor to forego the team experience, and instead got the experience of firing them.

I agree that team projects in school can quite mirror the real world. The poster's daughter having to share credit with slackers is a good example. Another is the guy on another team of mine who just plain put his foot down and wouldn't listen, and we lost credit (real world equivalent: didn't win the project) because his solution wasn't optimal for filling the stated criteria--because he read some other criteria between the lines and wanted to satisfy those instead.

One that so far I can't quite imagine in real life is where one guy went ahead and did the whole project himself before the rest of us got a chance to do anything. It wasn't about taking credit; we all got the grade. But homework is given for a reason--to force the students to have the learning experience. Without a project left to do, the rest of didn't have the self-study discipline to redo the work ourselves just for the learning experience, and so none of us got that learning experience in the end. Or is there a real world analogue to that as well?

Hg

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RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Team projects are a relatively new thing in education.  My opinion is that the expressed reason for them is as doberdorks said, "preparation for the real world", but the real reason is so the instructors don't have so much grading to do, and so the institutions can continue to pass high fee paying students who wouldn't be able to do the work on their own.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
hokie-
Team projects also allow students to learn from each other.  Teachers try and foster learning through every channel that is possible for obvious reasons.

As far as online team projects go...What better way to prepare you for the real world than teach you how to communicate with your team members through email, phone, and discussion boards.  After all, isnt that how a lot of collaboration is done between offices throughout the country and world?

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

geostruct,

You say it teaches teamwork.  I say it teaches how to avoid individual responsibility.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
hokie-
I suppose we can agree to disagree, but you certainly have a pessimistic view on it.  You get out what you put in.  If you do a majority of the work, then you get more out of the project than the teammates who did minimal work.  This further emphasizes that the name of the school or going to school online or in person does not make a big difference if you are simply broadening your knowledge.  I would hope that people getting their MS degree in engineering would give a damn about the classes and not try and stiff teammates with the work just to avoid it.

I guess I'm not aware that there didnt used to be as much teamwork in classes.  I'm surprised it took so long for universities to begin requiring it.  

Here is an excerpt from ASCE's Body of Knowlege guide, which is supposed to prepare the Civil Engineer for the future.  The M or 30 means MS Engineering degree or 30 continuing education credits.:

"The M or the 30 portion of this path can be accomplished equally well by traditional campus-based courses or by distance learning delivery systems, or a combination of the two.  In the future, all of the 30 might be delivered through independently evaluated, high-quality, standards-based educational programs offered by firms, government agencies, professional societies, and for-profit educational organizations.  Clearly, distance learning and independent educational programs are likely to become more prevalent and important in the future for both degree and non-degree granting programs."

The rest can be found at:
http://www.asce.org/files/pdf/professional/BOK2E_(ASCE_2008)_ebook.pdf?CFID=140289662&;CFTOKEN=41631267fd5840be-426A0C71-90CF-19F9-32573245CCDDAD8D&jsessionid=cc302781161216260065697

So apparently ASCE understands the future of these programs and recognizes them.  ASCE also is known for strict educational guidelines including the notion to require a masters degree or equivalent for licensure.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

The devil in me says, there are lots more women on campous.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Gymmeh

Which is not a good thing for those guys who are married.

Patricia Lougheed

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RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

geostruct - I agree completely.  

hoakie66 - This happens in team sports, school projects, business, etc.  I have found that most of the people that complain about doing all the work, often take the whole project upon themselves and in a nutshell, do not let the other teammates constructively contribute anything meaningful.  On the flip side, the person who got stuck with all the work got all the benefits.  Like what everyone else has said or hinted at: you get out of it what you put in.  Plus the business world operates the same.  Sure people will take credit in business teams, but they typically wont get as far over time.

gymmeh - You are at a level of wisdom that I couldn't even dream of reaching. I was considering an online MSME, but now I don't think so.  (Just kidding of course!)

vpl -  thats who needs it the most!  Haha, sorry, I'm married and couldn't resist!

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

geostruct, I am actually in the same boat as you, so I am just following this tread. I want to go for my masters but complicated.

I am planning on taking one graduate class to see if it works for me. Some schools have the option to get your masters without a thesis, which is directed toward professionals.

I have heard/read that MS is not comparable to an MBA.
 

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

"I have heard/read that MS is not comparable to an MBA"

You're right.

You actually have to put some effort into an MS.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
gymmeh-

I am doing the same.  Online MS Engineering interdisciplinary focus Structural/Geotechnical.  I am starting off with an easy course, then 2nd semester diving into the technical stuff and will keep going as long as everything goes well.  There is no thesis required.

My advice to you before I even start would be to make sure you pick a program with classes you are interested in, instead of picking a school with just a good name.  It turns out my school has the right classes, and also is somewhat affordable.  If you look above I posted a link for "best buys" online graduate degrees.

My theory on MBA's is that so many people have them it doesent really set you apart.  I would rather get my MS since I'm young in my career to help me sharpen my technical skills, then if I feel the need later in my career to get the MBA, I will do that as well.  I think as far as engineering goes, MS degrees are much more valuable especially if you are in consulting.  MBAs might help once you start moving into an upper management position or even start your own company.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

The engineering course only offers half of its calsses online and the rest must be hands on experience, industry standards. Good point thou because I've been trying to get to the bottom of this on mine own. I'm meeting with Farmingdale Unv. NY Longisland , they have an amazing program there. I'll let you guys know more next week what the answer is for sure. Online all or just half?

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

2
I am at this moment in my fourth year of the part time on-line MS study. Most classes are shared with full time campus students. And the comments regarding teamwork are very true.

If I want to complete an assignment within two weeks I have to start now, because I only have a few evenings and maybe a day or two in the weekends. Full time students start when they really have to because they have more classes and have different priorities. Starting 3 to 4 days before the due date gives them more than sufficient time. By that time I must already be writing my conclusions. The result is that the total project time schedule gets completely upset and I am doing all of the initial work and get very frustrated in the end.

Is there somebody to blame? I do not think so and it even does not matter.

The only solution is to explain to the professor that it just does not work and that you do not need to learn about team work because you have sufficient experience in your daytime work with that.

Another issue is to deal with administrative matters. Since you are not personally at the university it is often very complicated to reach the correct person / get answers on simple questions / get the right forms to fill in etc.
The bureaucracy gives me more headaches than the classes.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Thank you, terje61.  I was beginning to think I was imagining that this teamwork learning thing was a bad idea.  I am sorry you have to put up with that unnecessary crap, and I admire your perseverance.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Hi All,

To all that are currently enrolled in a graduate program, who is covering the cost of your degree?
Do you cover the cost or does your employer?

RP

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

My employer reimburses 100% for an A and 50% for a B.  I haven't had to put out a penny yet, thank goodness.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Oh yeah my employer will do that. I have no money that's why I waited for 8years to go back. Good question.  

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

My employer. 100% for B or better. 0% otherwise. Which is fine. They'll kick you out if your average is below a B.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

Wow. I'm impressed. My employer paid 50% upfront.  

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
100% A
75% B
50% C
up to $3000/yr

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

jorton-

That may not be a bad deal. You get the money up front. My school costs around 1500 per class. I have to shell that out up front and then wait to get reimbursed.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

(OP)
terje,

Good points..i guess it really depends on how a program is set up....if your school has a solely online program where you only interact with other online students (most likely working) you probably wont run into those problems.  If it is mixed, then yea I can see that problem arising.

However, these things can be avoided the same way as any other project.  You need to set deadlines within the team for certain parts to be completed...the same goes for projects at work.  It takes a lot of teamwork and leadership for projects to be completed efficiently and on time.  Maybe when we see problems arising like this we should all step up and take the lead.  

With all that said, terje, I can understand how hard it can be to control this from an online course, and you are right we get enough of this at work as it is.

But hey, for us young guys, the more practice dealing with this early in our careers, the better we will be at dealing with it later in our careers right?

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

My work used to cap it at 3k/year, too, but I talked to them because the classes are $2700.  If I take 3 per year, I am out a lot of money even with all A's.  They ended up removing the cap for me.
I, like frv, have to pay up front and get reimbursed after the class.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

frv,

I'm not complaining. The upfront payments made it possible for me. Also, I had no cap. Over the course of 18 months my employer contributed close to $14k. Of course I've wondered if my raise and bonus were affected by this, but I'm still very happy with the situation. I am suprised that so many employers will pay 100%. It will be interesting how the work/school scenario will develop in the next few years as the states begin to require additional hours for PE eligibility. Will the employers keep these more generous terms when they have to pay for every young employee to go back to school? Or will they develop even better terms in order to encourage PE obtainment? I guess time will tell.

RE: On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees

I am not so surprised that employers are paying for the MS.
1)
To complete it takes quite a long time so you tend to stay longer with the company you work for.
2)
You are really busy, so you do not have time to change jobs or start a new job.
3)
The study has most times a direct possitive influence on the work you are doing.
4)
You feel honoured by the company, that they pay so much money and you improve your attitude towards them.
5)
The study is tax deductable.

I would say it is a win-win situation.

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