PE Stamps
PE Stamps
(OP)
With the understanding that all States have different requirements for "who is licensed" and "how PE stamps are used", I have the following question:
First, in general terms, I'll give the background. Lets say we have a mechanical engineer licensed in State A working under the direction of a civil engineer, who belongs to the same firm, that is licensed in State B. The working being done is for a project in State B. The civil engineer asks the mechanical engineer to stamp her design drawings (using State A stamp) so he can place his stamp (using State B stamp) next to hers.
When she inquires why this is necessary, she is told that the State B stamp is required because that is where the work is but, since the civil engineer is not qualified to do mechanical engineering, her stamp is required too.
Is this a legitimate practice?
Can the mechanical engineer place a State A stamp on design drawings for a project that is being carried out in State B?
Any insight to this would be much appreciated.
First, in general terms, I'll give the background. Lets say we have a mechanical engineer licensed in State A working under the direction of a civil engineer, who belongs to the same firm, that is licensed in State B. The working being done is for a project in State B. The civil engineer asks the mechanical engineer to stamp her design drawings (using State A stamp) so he can place his stamp (using State B stamp) next to hers.
When she inquires why this is necessary, she is told that the State B stamp is required because that is where the work is but, since the civil engineer is not qualified to do mechanical engineering, her stamp is required too.
Is this a legitimate practice?
Can the mechanical engineer place a State A stamp on design drawings for a project that is being carried out in State B?
Any insight to this would be much appreciated.






RE: PE Stamps
If this is on federal property, the rules are different.
Also, a few states allow another state's stamp to be used on a TEMPORARY basis if application was pending in the correct state. This is a state by state issue, and not common.
And again, just because both people work for the same company does not mean one engineer can stamp another's work. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it is basically illegal.
Hope that helps.
RE: PE Stamps
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: PE Stamps
No, not if I understand what you are saying. If I am a registered engineer in Missouri and the project is in Kansas, I cannot use my Missouri stamp in Kansas. It just doesn't work that way.
If that was allowed, each state wouldn't be able to charge me hundreds of dollar per year to maintain a license in each state I do design work in.
I can get a Kansas license by comity or reciprocity if I am licensed in Missouri, but I have to apply, pay the fee, and get the stamp.
Or maybe I don't understand what you said?
Dave
RE: PE Stamps
If one is not licensed in a state and then stamps with another state's stamp he is essentially practicing or representing himself as a licensed Engineer in a state where he is not.
In the original question, I think the supervising Civil Engineer could stamp if the work was done under his/her responsible control. This means that the stamping Engineer was in a position to assure accuracy and will take responsibility for material errors. By placing the ME's stamp first the Civil is attemping to claim responsible charge and at the same time rely on the ME's work. This is contradictory to the responsible charge claim.
I think Itsmoked's argument is that the stamp is clear as to the state. But that relies too much on the knowledge and diligence of the person hiring and such defense would fail in most states. It probably also would breach the contract.
Right?
RE: PE Stamps
What I am saying is how can there be any illegality for just stamping a drawing! The illegality occurs when the end user uses it in an unapproved state, not just because a person stamped it for their state.
Many general purpose engineering drawings are stamped for a particular state that they may not even be used in. They need further approval for use elsewhere.
What I'm getting at is an engineer is asked to stamp a drawing - it is not illegal in anyway - to do just that as all they are doing is certifying its quality in the state he/she is qualified to affix their stamp.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: PE Stamps
I see the logic in what you are saying, but it just doesn't work that way. The drawing identifies a particular project in a particular state. If you want to re-use that drawing for an identical project in another state, you could copy it onto a new drawing with a new title block, but it would have to be stamped by someone registered in that state.
It is generally illegal for an engineer to review work done by someone else and then stamp it unless he or she was in "responsible charge" of the work, such as being that engineer's supervisor.
I've turned down a lot of work that I was qualified to do because I was not registered in the proper state and there was not time to get registered in that state.
RE: PE Stamps
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: PE Stamps
Many states have unique licensing qualifications. Some differences are administrative and some are technical. For example California has much different qualifications for a civil engineer than Kansas due to the different environment (primarily due to seismic concerns). Florida has unique requirements for structural engineers and architects.
RE: PE Stamps
I have a bigger question, what a civil engineer is doing stamping a mechanical design? or why a mechanical engineer doing a civil design?
In case of the scenario OP susggested, only stamp that counts is the B state's stamp. The civil engineer also has to swear that he reviewed the drawings and they were produced under his suprevision. He cannot say that just because he made other guy stamp with another state A's licence, he "assumed" the work to be compliance with state B's requirements. He also will not be able to pass on his liability. In fact it could land him in more trouble of willful negligence.
The scenario only works, if it was acceptable by the AHJ in State B.
RE: PE Stamps
I feel like additional information is warranted, however...
In general, the State A stamp would be placed on the ME drawings to "protect" the Civil engineer as a person in responsible charge.
The project is a multidiscipline effort. The mechanical engineering would only be doing ME design tasks and the civil would only be doing CE tasks. However, the CE is the project engineer/manager and the only one with a State B stamp so he will have to stamp all drawings. Since the CE cannot do ME work, he has asked the ME to place her State A stamp on her design drawings (only) so that he can claim the ME work was done by an educated and trained professional (not some yahoo down the road).
Thanks again for the feedback!
RE: PE Stamps
RE: PE Stamps
RE: PE Stamps
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: PE Stamps
State laws vary a lot for mobile homes and other modular construction.
RE: PE Stamps
The added information does nothing to clear the CE from stamping a drawing outside his area of competence.
This fraud may go undetected, since stamps usually don't indicate areas of competence. But if it is detected, it will not be good for either engineer. Note that the ME and any other PE with knowledge has a duty to report.
RE: PE Stamps
Your last post is worriesome. You do not seem to be understaing what has been stated so far.
1. The civil engineer cannot stamp ME drawings. Period. Where he is licenensed is immaterial.
2. Project Engineer or CEO of the compnay or a janitor, it does not matter, he/she cannot be stamping "for" anyone!
3. The engineer must be licensed in the state where the project is to be built and in that particular decipline.
4. If the engineer who designed the drawings is licensed correctly, he/she need not be and cannot be "protected" by any boss, project manager or whoever.
5. Read the ethic rules of State B Licensiong authority.
RE: PE Stamps
RE: PE Stamps
RE: PE Stamps
... and I am getting it... why do think I posted the question in the first place?... because it didn't sound right to me either!
Thanks again.